Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles › [Various] AMD's Zen To Have 10 Pipelines Per Core - Details Leaked In Patch (Updated)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[Various] AMD's Zen To Have 10 Pipelines Per Core - Details Leaked In Patch (Updated) - Page 7

post #61 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

Eh, each performance level of tech gadgets should be going up in price by about %5-10 per year because of inflation. People who compare prices now to prices 10 years ago need to learn about economics.

A CPU in the same performance category as a $100 CPU from 10 years ago should be in the $160-250 price bracket. As this is not true, its obvious that cost per CPU has come down quite a bit just by virtue of the price tiers staying fairly consistent.
That only works if people get payed more otherwise they feel that things get more expensive relative to what they earn.
Such exponential growth needs to stop at some point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seronx View Post

It can decode 4 macro-ops. It is unknown if the decoders can decode FastPath double singularly or if they need to fuse.

If we are going based on AMD64 manuals, the decodes should be 4 FastPath doubles, 8 FastPath singles, ~~length Vector{Microcode}. If not it just points out Zen is just a stop gap for NG Bulldozer 5{Crane} and 6{Sweeper}.
Please no more Bulldozer iterations unless fully fixed and competitive.
Edited by maarten12100 - 10/5/15 at 12:34pm
post #62 of 758
Zen looks very promising. I think this is going to be a winner.

I can't imagine why AMD would not be trying to beat or at least match Intel's current offerings at the time of release. I'm pretty much and AMD CPU fan, but if they release Zen only to match Intel's previous generation, I'll keep my Phenom until it dies and then switch. I see no point in AMD dumping R&D $$$ into a product they know will be inferior.

They should fire their marketing and PR departments all together and save the money. Let the product speak for itself, and let it scream awesomeness.
Longterm upgrader
(19 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom 965 BE ASRock Fatal1ty 990FX Killer MSI R9 285 Gaming Team Xtreme 16GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
seagate SATA intel ssd Sony DVD Burner Corsair H110 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
140mm case fan x2 Windows 7 Insignia LG L1932TQ 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000 OCZ 750w Fatality Fractal Design Define R4 Tt esport Talon 
Mouse PadAudio
yes Logitech 5.1 
  hide details  
Reply
Longterm upgrader
(19 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom 965 BE ASRock Fatal1ty 990FX Killer MSI R9 285 Gaming Team Xtreme 16GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
seagate SATA intel ssd Sony DVD Burner Corsair H110 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
140mm case fan x2 Windows 7 Insignia LG L1932TQ 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000 OCZ 750w Fatality Fractal Design Define R4 Tt esport Talon 
Mouse PadAudio
yes Logitech 5.1 
  hide details  
Reply
post #63 of 758
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffins View Post

i was going to wait for zen buy after hearing about its delay release of end of 2016 early 2017 i went ahead and upgraded my 980x to skylake with a 6700k.

intel is already on skylake, and skylake brought a decent boost over haswell and a worth while upgrade boost over all previous generations under haswell. intel is planning on releasing its skylake refresh at the end of 2016 / early 2017 with kaby lake. if by the end of 2016 / early 2017 zen releases and only matches haswell, intel architecture from 2013 in performance, amd will once again still be two generations behind intel in terms of performance.

i'm not saying haswell performances isn't great, no its awesome, but if amd want's to be successful and really cause people to switch over it needs to at least match intel's current generation in terms of performance. toss in a nice platform with a rich feature set, and competitive pricing, and amd can be hugely successful. if it just matches haswell it will just be another bulldozer for them.
Zen wasn't delayed; it has always been scheduled for a 2H/late 2H release, with Zen APUs in 2017. I guess some people were not fully aware of the APUs coming later, and then freaked out when they saw Zen and 2017 together, causing a rumour to spread thumb.gif


Nice to see that we get some high-level info on the cores. Looks exiting smile.gif
post #64 of 758
This looks like the antithesis of Bulldozer in many ways; the general idea seems to be to minimize the amount of latency in the core with checkpointing and the rest of the branch misprediction improvements and spit things out AQAP. I bet that's one of the things Jim brought over; the 212/21464 had deep pipes like Bulldozer, but Alpha also had a lot of countermeasures against branch misprediction, so Jim probably knew of some ways to further reduce the misprediction. AMD did a lot of work themselves reducing the branch misprediction in the subsequent iterations of the Construction Cores, as well. PD was a 30% reduction, and I think SR was also around a 30% reduction.

They also seem to think they've fixed the cache latency problem if they doubled the amount of L2 they're putting on it.

The salient question: how many consumer-grade applications heavily use 256-bit FP operations? That appears to be Zen's primary bottleneck.
Edited by PiOfPie - 10/5/15 at 1:36pm
Claire
(8 items)
 
Asus N56JR
(5 items)
 
Die "Neue" FXe
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Ryzen 5 1600 ASRock X370 Taichi MSI Radeon R9 390 GAMING 8G G.Skill Flare X 3200 MHz CL14 
Hard DriveOSPowerCase
Samsung 960 EVO 500 GB Solus Seasonic SSR-550RM NZXT S340 Elite Matte White 
CPUGraphicsHard DriveOS
Intel Core i7-4700HQ GeForce GTX 760M Samsung 840 EVO 250 GB Microsoft Windows 10 Education 
Other
Intel Wireless-AC 7260 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8120 Asus SABERTOOTH 990FX MSI Radeon R9 390 GAMING 8G G. Skill Ripjaws (DDR3-1600) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 EVO 250 Asus DRW-21B1ST Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 
PowerCaseAudio
Cooler Master RS-600-AMBA-D3 Cooler Master CM690 II Advanced Asus Xonar DG 
  hide details  
Reply
Claire
(8 items)
 
Asus N56JR
(5 items)
 
Die "Neue" FXe
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Ryzen 5 1600 ASRock X370 Taichi MSI Radeon R9 390 GAMING 8G G.Skill Flare X 3200 MHz CL14 
Hard DriveOSPowerCase
Samsung 960 EVO 500 GB Solus Seasonic SSR-550RM NZXT S340 Elite Matte White 
CPUGraphicsHard DriveOS
Intel Core i7-4700HQ GeForce GTX 760M Samsung 840 EVO 250 GB Microsoft Windows 10 Education 
Other
Intel Wireless-AC 7260 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8120 Asus SABERTOOTH 990FX MSI Radeon R9 390 GAMING 8G G. Skill Ripjaws (DDR3-1600) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 EVO 250 Asus DRW-21B1ST Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 
PowerCaseAudio
Cooler Master RS-600-AMBA-D3 Cooler Master CM690 II Advanced Asus Xonar DG 
  hide details  
Reply
post #65 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiOfPie View Post

The salient question: how many consumer-grade applications heavily use 256-bit FP operations? That appears to be Zen's primary bottleneck.

Dont PCSX2 and Dolphin make fairly good use of 256-bit AVX2 instructions for performance boosts? I doubt I will get Zen if it does have gimped AVX2 performance like the past AMD processors. I do like to go back and play some of those old games from time to time or have a lan party and play some old Mario Kart and stuff, and it is nice to upscale to 4K resolution with AA + AF, high def texture packs, and still get 60fps.
Gaming
(17 items)
 
Gaming PC
(20 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
7700K AS Rock Z170 OC Formula Titan X Pascal 2050MHz 64GB DDR4-3200 14-14-14-34-1T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
950 EVO m.2 OS drive 850 EVO 1TB games drive Intel 730 series 500GB games drive Custom water cooling 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 10 Pro x64 AMH A399U E-Element mechanical, black switches, Vortex b... EVGA G3 1kw 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
Lian-Li PC-V1000L Redragon M901 LH Labs Pulse X Infinity DAC Custom built balanced tube amp with SS diamond ... 
Audio
MrSpeakers Alpha Prime 
  hide details  
Reply
Gaming
(17 items)
 
Gaming PC
(20 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
7700K AS Rock Z170 OC Formula Titan X Pascal 2050MHz 64GB DDR4-3200 14-14-14-34-1T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
950 EVO m.2 OS drive 850 EVO 1TB games drive Intel 730 series 500GB games drive Custom water cooling 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 10 Pro x64 AMH A399U E-Element mechanical, black switches, Vortex b... EVGA G3 1kw 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
Lian-Li PC-V1000L Redragon M901 LH Labs Pulse X Infinity DAC Custom built balanced tube amp with SS diamond ... 
Audio
MrSpeakers Alpha Prime 
  hide details  
Reply
post #66 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post

Dont PCSX2 and Dolphin make fairly good use of 256-bit AVX2 instructions for performance boosts?
I believe they can. But Zen isn't really gimped in AVX2. It can do 2xFADD/FMUL ops just like Haswell. However seems like Haswell can do 2xFMA, while Zen can do 1xFMA. But there might be a typo I think.
Code:
+                     "znver1-double,(znver1-fp0+znver1-fp3)|(znver1-fp1+znver1-fp3)")
Doesn't make much sense. It could be a typo so we still can't be 100% sure how the FPU will work. But either way on most workloads it shouldn't lag behind Haswell.
post #67 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post

Dont PCSX2 and Dolphin make fairly good use of 256-bit AVX2 instructions for performance boosts? I doubt I will get Zen if it does have gimped AVX2 performance like the past AMD processors. I do like to go back and play some of those old games from time to time or have a lan party and play some old Mario Kart and stuff, and it is nice to upscale to 4K resolution with AA + AF, high def texture packs, and still get 60fps.

Haswell Pentium G is performing significantly better per clock in both applications than its predecessors, and it doesn't have AVX/AVX2.
Haswell i3
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i3-4150 @ 3.5 GHz Asus B85M-G Rev 1.01, Bios: 2501 Integrated Intel HD 4400 2x 4GB DDR3 1600 MHz CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 750 EVO 250GB Seagate Barracuda 1TB 7200.14 Seagate 500 GB 2.5" Samsung DVD/RW 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Corsair H70 Windows 10 64 bit Samsung A300N 20" 1600 x 900 60Hz 5ms 19Watt PS/2 Microsoft Wired Keyboard 500 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair TX850 V2 CoolerMaster Elite 430 Black Logitech M170 
  hide details  
Reply
Haswell i3
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i3-4150 @ 3.5 GHz Asus B85M-G Rev 1.01, Bios: 2501 Integrated Intel HD 4400 2x 4GB DDR3 1600 MHz CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 750 EVO 250GB Seagate Barracuda 1TB 7200.14 Seagate 500 GB 2.5" Samsung DVD/RW 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Corsair H70 Windows 10 64 bit Samsung A300N 20" 1600 x 900 60Hz 5ms 19Watt PS/2 Microsoft Wired Keyboard 500 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair TX850 V2 CoolerMaster Elite 430 Black Logitech M170 
  hide details  
Reply
post #68 of 758
One other point: if you look at Stroonz's third source and scroll all the way down do a control+f for avx512, you can see that the flags for AVX512 are set to 0, so Zen won't support it, at least not until Zen+.
Edited by PiOfPie - 10/5/15 at 2:35pm
Claire
(8 items)
 
Asus N56JR
(5 items)
 
Die "Neue" FXe
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Ryzen 5 1600 ASRock X370 Taichi MSI Radeon R9 390 GAMING 8G G.Skill Flare X 3200 MHz CL14 
Hard DriveOSPowerCase
Samsung 960 EVO 500 GB Solus Seasonic SSR-550RM NZXT S340 Elite Matte White 
CPUGraphicsHard DriveOS
Intel Core i7-4700HQ GeForce GTX 760M Samsung 840 EVO 250 GB Microsoft Windows 10 Education 
Other
Intel Wireless-AC 7260 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8120 Asus SABERTOOTH 990FX MSI Radeon R9 390 GAMING 8G G. Skill Ripjaws (DDR3-1600) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 EVO 250 Asus DRW-21B1ST Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 
PowerCaseAudio
Cooler Master RS-600-AMBA-D3 Cooler Master CM690 II Advanced Asus Xonar DG 
  hide details  
Reply
Claire
(8 items)
 
Asus N56JR
(5 items)
 
Die "Neue" FXe
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Ryzen 5 1600 ASRock X370 Taichi MSI Radeon R9 390 GAMING 8G G.Skill Flare X 3200 MHz CL14 
Hard DriveOSPowerCase
Samsung 960 EVO 500 GB Solus Seasonic SSR-550RM NZXT S340 Elite Matte White 
CPUGraphicsHard DriveOS
Intel Core i7-4700HQ GeForce GTX 760M Samsung 840 EVO 250 GB Microsoft Windows 10 Education 
Other
Intel Wireless-AC 7260 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8120 Asus SABERTOOTH 990FX MSI Radeon R9 390 GAMING 8G G. Skill Ripjaws (DDR3-1600) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 EVO 250 Asus DRW-21B1ST Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 
PowerCaseAudio
Cooler Master RS-600-AMBA-D3 Cooler Master CM690 II Advanced Asus Xonar DG 
  hide details  
Reply
post #69 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocknut View Post

what I meant is they need to offer 15% better price/performance.

if the same performing CPU are price the same as Intel's, just as how their poorly priced Fury X vs 980ti then I will stick to intel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocknut View Post

with their recent product quality & performance. It will take multi-years of consistent great product b4 they can shake off that bad brand image.

Fury X is selling off quick because there are enough hype for a HBM GPU + small form factor friendly + the combination of very limited quantity of fury X + there is enough AMD fan to buy that thing. I highly doubt they can sell as well as 980Ti if fury X is mass produced.

Zen on overrall need to be 15% better than intel on price/performance, otherwise they wont work.


That's just ludicrous. Better just send your money to Intel now,don't bother to wait to get something in return for it. You have just proved AMD can be every bit as good as Intel and the fanboys will still cry Intel/Nvidia is better. Should be ashamed.
Amelia
(13 items)
 
Professional
(13 items)
 
RCPC#1
(17 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II X6 1100t MSI 890FX GD65 MSI Radeon HD5670 GSkill RipjawsX DDR3 PC3 12800 2x4GB CL8 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
WD Black 1TB SATA III Samsung BD Zalman 9900MAX Windows 7 64 Professional 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
AOC 22" LED Logitech Kingwin Lazer Platinum 500w Fractal Design R3 
Other
Samsung 470 SSD 128GB 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II X6 960T Asus M4A88T-VEVO Asus Strix R7 370 SuperTalent Perfomance 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
GSkill Snipers Monster Daytona Seagate Barracuda 500GB 7,200 RPM 16Mb cache Memorex DVD/RW 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Corsair H60 Windows 8N IBM 9494 19" LCD IBM 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair GS500 In Win H-Frame Wolfking OCZ Behemoth 
Audio
JBL Creature 
  hide details  
Reply
Amelia
(13 items)
 
Professional
(13 items)
 
RCPC#1
(17 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II X6 1100t MSI 890FX GD65 MSI Radeon HD5670 GSkill RipjawsX DDR3 PC3 12800 2x4GB CL8 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
WD Black 1TB SATA III Samsung BD Zalman 9900MAX Windows 7 64 Professional 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
AOC 22" LED Logitech Kingwin Lazer Platinum 500w Fractal Design R3 
Other
Samsung 470 SSD 128GB 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II X6 960T Asus M4A88T-VEVO Asus Strix R7 370 SuperTalent Perfomance 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
GSkill Snipers Monster Daytona Seagate Barracuda 500GB 7,200 RPM 16Mb cache Memorex DVD/RW 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Corsair H60 Windows 8N IBM 9494 19" LCD IBM 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair GS500 In Win H-Frame Wolfking OCZ Behemoth 
Audio
JBL Creature 
  hide details  
Reply
post #70 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiOfPie View Post

One other point: if you look at Stroonz's third source and scroll all the way down do a control+f for avx512, you can see that the flags for AVX512 are set to 0, so Zen won't support it, at least not until Zen+.

After seeing these AMD Zen slides, Lets assume Intel may/should only be faster in FP workloads then. Intel's last chance should be within their FPU power.
And I would be surprised if Intel lets AMD use AVX512 first, until they first Introduce it with Cannonlake.

I am also skeptical of all currently available documents and optimization guides (if there are any) for avx512 for their Xeon, as there is no guarantee those avx intrinsics would work "optimally" with AMD Zen+ or whatever. This is after watching all the Instruction set wars that we have been seeing all these past years.
Haswell i3
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i3-4150 @ 3.5 GHz Asus B85M-G Rev 1.01, Bios: 2501 Integrated Intel HD 4400 2x 4GB DDR3 1600 MHz CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 750 EVO 250GB Seagate Barracuda 1TB 7200.14 Seagate 500 GB 2.5" Samsung DVD/RW 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Corsair H70 Windows 10 64 bit Samsung A300N 20" 1600 x 900 60Hz 5ms 19Watt PS/2 Microsoft Wired Keyboard 500 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair TX850 V2 CoolerMaster Elite 430 Black Logitech M170 
  hide details  
Reply
Haswell i3
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i3-4150 @ 3.5 GHz Asus B85M-G Rev 1.01, Bios: 2501 Integrated Intel HD 4400 2x 4GB DDR3 1600 MHz CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 750 EVO 250GB Seagate Barracuda 1TB 7200.14 Seagate 500 GB 2.5" Samsung DVD/RW 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Corsair H70 Windows 10 64 bit Samsung A300N 20" 1600 x 900 60Hz 5ms 19Watt PS/2 Microsoft Wired Keyboard 500 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair TX850 V2 CoolerMaster Elite 430 Black Logitech M170 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles › [Various] AMD's Zen To Have 10 Pipelines Per Core - Details Leaked In Patch (Updated)