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[PCPer] StarCraft II v3.0 Gets Another New UI - Page 3

post #21 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Not sure how balancing in SC2 works but in Dota 2 it's mostly done to change the game so people play different heros but to "balance" the game.

Balancing in sc2 is purely reactionary and delayed.

For example in WoL the Infestor 's Fungal Growth was instant cast which meant there was no counter play, if you got hit with 1 fungal you were going to get hit with several fungals and everything effected would die.

Or the Mothership's vortex and piling in Archons to abuse the no collission for units while they all exited the vortex (meaning you could have 6 archons shoot the entire enemy army at once). Both of which weren't patched until koreans started screaming imba on national live television.

Or how Swarm Hosts in HotS were a huge balance problem that wasn't addressed until very recently.
post #22 of 40

After years of not owning this game, I played some beta, I finally caved and bought it solely for the co-op and the campaigns.  I don't have the energy to micromanage all these units like I used to.

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post #23 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assirra View Post

Honestly you are very very very much underestimating balancing an RTS.
You act like it's so simple but 1 tiny change can completely change the meta of a whole matchup.
The only reason BW (the biggest RTS ever) was balanced is because it was OP vs OP. The things you complain about now in SC2? Those were waaay bigger in BW except there people learned to live with it rather then whine about balance.

Not once did I say balancing an RTS was easy, I simply stated that Blizzard and other companies for that matter; are failing to balance their games across the board.

Additionally back in WoL they frequently made changes that WILDLY threw multi-player balance completely all over the place which just showed how little they tested it internally while simultaneously ignoring community feedback from professional and casual players alike.

I'm not sure if this is still the case but I stopped caring about ranked ladder (lower-mid diamond) matches when match ups became so disparagingly all over the place. You would get a game where your opponent was the same rank as you and yet you could stomp into the ground like a 2 year old simply because they knew nothing other than a cheese like cannon rushing and the moment it failed GG and then games where you got stomped so hard your ancestors had blood in their stool. Maybe 1 out of 50 games felt like they were evenly balanced and I felt satisfied regardless of winning or losing.

Starcraft will always have a special place in my heart as I've been playing it since it first came out in 1998 on my windows 95 system (which I still have and works to this day!) and nothing will stop me from playing SC2 and its expansions but since it is so special to me I want to see it in a better state than I feel it currently is. Maybe several years after the final expansion it will achieve the level of balance I long for and I can just let go of my issues with the story.
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post #24 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assirra View Post

That won't work nowdays. People are already abandoning Starcraft 2 because it is too stressful compared to other games. Once you include BW stuff like retarded dragoon AI, having to put all your miners on minerals/gas and the 12 unit cap/group the game will almost drop dead there and then.

It's funny, that's one of the only reasons I love SC2. I got into the whole thing only after SC2 came out so I never played SC1, but I love the fact that it's an unforgiving beast that requires you put in genuine effort to get good at. Sadly I can't play much these days because work and studies are more important, but I will still be picking this up to sink some hours into. tongue.gif
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post #25 of 40
Quote:
Or how Swarm Hosts in HotS were a huge balance problem that wasn't addressed until very recently.

They were a design problem, not a balance problem. Winrates were still ~50/50 for most of the expansion.
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post #26 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

They were a design problem, not a balance problem. Winrates were still ~50/50 for most of the expansion.

Design means the role is flawed. The role as a sieging unit was fine. The issue was the locusts did far, far too much damage and that's a numbers issue - hence it's a balance issue.

Blizzard just decided to change its role to a weird base sniping harasser instead of leaving it as a sieging unit.
post #27 of 40
Quote:
hence it's a balance issue.

When you have 50/50 winrates the problems are with design, not balance. Most of the zerg issues have been stuff like supporting entire matchups where they are weak on the backs of a few overly strong units (infestor, swarm host) yet still didn't go over 50/50 winrate for some of the time that it was a problem.
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post #28 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

When you have 50/50 winrates the problems are with design, not balance. Most of the zerg issues have been stuff like supporting entire matchups where they are weak on the backs of a few overly strong units (infestor, swarm host) yet still didn't go over 50/50 winrate for some of the time that it was a problem.

I disagree completely, winrates are indicative of how well a playerbase is adapting. To understand this better you'd have to know some statistical math. Otherwise you wouldn't undertsand what the variables are indicative of.

Too tired to have an in depth conversation about statistical math right now, normally I'd be at least open to it but....blarg. Gonna finish watching Gotham then pass out.
Edited by DIYDeath - 10/6/15 at 4:39am
post #29 of 40
Quote:
I disagree completely, winrates are indicative of how well a playerbase is adapting.

Winrates in the top 0.1% of play over a period of months are highly indicative of balance. They swing wildly in response to patches and metagame advancements.
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post #30 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by axipher View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DEW21689 View Post

Realizing they had it right back in SC1/BW... If only they realized that in other aspects of the game...

 

Just give us a 3D (not 3D vision) + HD Remake of SC:BW with the updated trigger engine, unit customization and better campaign editor. Just don't kill things like Hyper Triggers...


Have you played Mass Recall?

 

No I haven't, should I?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assirra View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by axipher View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DEW21689 View Post

Realizing they had it right back in SC1/BW... If only they realized that in other aspects of the game...

 

Just give us a 3D (not 3D vision) + HD Remake of SC:BW with the updated trigger engine, unit customization and better campaign editor. Just don't kill things like Hyper Triggers...
That won't work nowdays. People are already abandoning Starcraft 2 because it is too stressful compared to other games. Once you include BW stuff like retarded dragoon AI, having to put all your miners on minerals/gas and the 12 unit cap/group the game will almost drop dead there and then.

 

But that's what made the game interesting and fun and required some skill in managing your units when you got in to the higher tiers of gameplay. In regular matches it wasn't really an issue which is the case in most games with balancing anyway. I don't think you can truly ever balance a game for all levels of skill
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