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[The Verge] Microsoft Surface Book - Page 18

post #171 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkenietz View Post

Minimum builds

rMBP 13.3 broadwell i5 (dual core), 128gb pcie ssd, iris 6100 8gb 1866mhz ram $1300

Surface book 13.5, skylake i5 (?? Core), 128gb ssd, hd graphics, 8gb ?? ram $1500

Both 3.5 ish lbs

Obviously you can't compare the maxed 13.3 rMBP to the maxed surface book as it has an inherently different design with components in both the upper and lower segments. If you compared it price wise with apple the maxed would come in at the same as a maxed 15"rMBP.

15"rMBP
Currently haswell still I believe, broadwell chips weren't ready in time Rumored possible fall update to skylake. Quad core i7, 1tb pcie ssd, 16gb ram, m370x $2700

Surface book 16gb of ram, 512gb, skylake i7, and "nvidia GeForce gpu" for the same $2700.

Really pretty equal, the rMBP also competes well/ is arguable better than the dell xps, lenovo x, ect..

Apple has become better at competition through everyone else overcharging

On the highend, macbook do compete a bit better because everyone overcharges on the upper end. It is the lower end that Apple can overcharge.

Look at the macbook 12". 1299 dollars, core m processor and 256gb harddrive and above 1080p screen 12 inch screen.

Look at the ux305, 13.3" inch screen, 256gb harddrive and the same amount of ram. The big difference is the price. The ux305 is 699 vs apples 1299. Adding in that the macbook comes with no ports and you are going to have to spend a minimum 100 dollars on adaptors and your paying twice as much.

What the macbook 12" has going for it, is the touchpad, a faster processor(not much they both use core M processors) and a higher resolution screen(both are ips). That isn't enough to charge almost double for.

The problem is from a consumer standpoint, apple is overcharging but from a business standpoint they are not. Demand is high enough that apple doesn't need to drop their prices. But this is because the reality distortion effect is very real. And it is effecting reviews. You constantly see criticisms launched at none apple products in reviews that when apple does it the rules don't apply. E.g no removable battery, no touchscreen, expensive. Even more defined metrics like performance. See ux305 reviews vs macbook 12" reviews. Both show a similar showing in benchmarks, put review website will criticize the performance of the ux305 but not the macbook. Heck pcmag, had the ux305 winning in the only benchmark that they shared, and they criticized the ux305 performance and not the macbooks.

People are willing to pay more for apple and it is reflected in their profit margins. 30 percent profit margin vs 6 percent for everyone else. This is a desirable position and companies are trying to do the same thing which results in similarly overpriced laptops from Dell and Microsoft. This surfacebook is absolutely overpriced. Considering unlike apple, microsoft is a software company first, they really should be more interested in raising the bar for PC manufacturers than having high profit margins on hardware. This means making a reference machine that companies can emulate or improve upon while making the price more reachable so it has a significant impact on the market.
post #172 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111 View Post

On the highend, macbook do compete a bit better because everyone overcharges on the upper end. It is the lower end that Apple can overcharge.

Look at the macbook 12". 1299 dollars, core m processor and 256gb harddrive and above 1080p screen 12 inch screen.

Look at the ux305, 13.3" inch screen, 256gb harddrive and the same amount of ram. The big difference is the price. The ux305 is 699 vs apples 1299. Adding in that the macbook comes with no ports and you are going to have to spend a minimum 100 dollars on adaptors and your paying twice as much.

What the macbook 12" has going for it, is the touchpad, a faster processor(not much they both use core M processors) and a higher resolution screen(both are ips). That isn't enough to charge almost double for.
But you're not paying twice as much for the same thing. The faster processor (800MHz-2GHz vs 1.1GHz - 2.6GHz) would cost more, as would the higher resolution panel. Also a difference worth noting is that the MacBook has smaller dimensions and is somewhat lighter due to the smaller screen (which may or may not be desirable depending on what the consumer wants.)
Quote:
The problem is from a consumer standpoint, apple is overcharging but from a business standpoint they are not. Demand is high enough that apple doesn't need to drop their prices. But this is because the reality distortion effect is very real. And it is effecting reviews. You constantly see criticisms launched at none apple products in reviews that when apple does it the rules don't apply. E.g no removable battery, no touchscreen, expensive. Even more defined metrics like performance. See ux305 reviews vs macbook 12" reviews. Both show a similar showing in benchmarks, put review website will criticize the performance of the ux305 but not the macbook. Heck pcmag, had the ux305 winning in the only benchmark that they shared, and they criticized the ux305 performance and not the macbooks.

People are willing to pay more for apple and it is reflected in their profit margins. 30 percent profit margin vs 6 percent for everyone else. This is a desirable position and companies are trying to do the same thing which results in similarly overpriced laptops from Dell and Microsoft. This surfacebook is absolutely overpriced. Considering unlike apple, microsoft is a software company first, they really should be more interested in raising the bar for PC manufacturers than having high profit margins on hardware. This means making a reference machine that companies can emulate or improve upon while making the price more reachable so it has a significant impact on the market.
I don't believe it's a "reality distortion effect." There's just a lot of people that don't know anything about computers and they get sold "whatever" because of it. Whether it's a Mac or a PC. It's not something that's exclusive to Apple.

They certainly have made a name for themselves, but I think that's because of OS X. At the end of the day, if Macs only ran Windows -- the difference between them would be negligible. It's OS X that defines a Mac. And if you want OS X, you can't get it on anything else.

I think the reason that reviews are like that may be because it's not unexpected for Apple laptops to not have a removable battery, or a touch screen. It's been that way for a while. However there are a large variety of PC laptops competing against each other -- so noting that it doesn't have a touch screen or a removable battery may make more sense.
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post #173 of 260
Any idea when we find out what the gpu will be in this?
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post #174 of 260
This looks like a very good ultra portable to me. Still more money than I want to spend on a laptop but the price is certainly good for what you get. I still want a Surface 3 so I hope the price comes down when the Surface 4 launches.
post #175 of 260
Microsoft says they have improved cooling on SP4 and Book probably the same i i would have to call them out. I have tested my SP3 to death to find ways to stop the Throttle but you just can't. If the application is using CPU + GPU you will be Power Limited mining something like i5-4300U will only run ~ 1.4GHz. After that the SOC will start to get hot and once it hits 90C ~ 30-60 seconds it will start to lower TDP and go as low as 65C. To hit 65C it will down-clock as low 800MHz on the Core and 500-600MHz on GPU (1100MHz) Stock. Basically you lose 50% of the performance of "normal" power limited performance. Even blowing 120mm fan on It only helps slightly. Get's to about 1.3GHz Core and 750-800MHz GPU. No way they have improved cooling enough to make SP4 with same 15W TDP slimmer. Same goes for Book. Just letting people know. I got too use to iPad and T100 not having this problems. The worse part is not performance loss but stupid loud fan which is louder my ASUS G53 gaming laptop. I think MS think people that buy these are "Apple" users and only going to use them for light browsing and Word processing. You would think it's fine since you are not going to play games or do any heavy video editing or use demanding apps but even something like Twitch will make fan go like crazy.
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post #176 of 260
That 12 hour battery life will last for about a year and then drop down to about 30 minutes.
post #177 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowHardCanItBe View Post

That 12 hour battery life will last for about a year and then drop down to about 30 minutes.

At least with Windows you can check Battery life with HW Monitoring. The used Surface i for which was 13 months old had 97% Battery Health.
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post #178 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowHardCanItBe View Post

That 12 hour battery life will last for about a year and then drop down to about 30 minutes.
Well, you always can go and get a new keyboard section if you really needed too. I guess you can replace 3/4th of the Surface Book's battery.
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post #179 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir cuddles View Post

Well, you always can go and get a new keyboard section if you really needed too. I guess you can replace 3/4th of the Surface Book's battery.

Upgrade GPU next year? That would be cool.
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post #180 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Upgrade GPU next year? That would be cool.
Should definitely be possible, its just up to Microsoft or a third party to start making keyboards for upgrades.
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