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[The Verge] Microsoft Surface Book - Page 19

post #181 of 260
I'm also curious about the connection between the tablet and keyboard. You're essentially running an egpu, if they skimped on connection method you may not see full benefit I would assume, depending on how powerful gpu is used
post #182 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkenietz View Post

I'm also curious about the connection between the tablet and keyboard. You're essentially running an egpu, if they skimped on connection method you may not see full benefit I would assume, depending on how powerful gpu is used

It does not matter much. Even PCIE 3.0 x4 is more then enough for 1GB GPU.
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post #183 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

But you're not paying twice as much for the same thing. The faster processor (800MHz-2GHz vs 1.1GHz - 2.6GHz) would cost more, as would the higher resolution panel. Also a difference worth noting is that the MacBook has smaller dimensions and is somewhat lighter due to the smaller screen (which may or may not be desirable depending on what the consumer wants.)
I don't believe it's a "reality distortion effect." There's just a lot of people that don't know anything about computers and they get sold "whatever" because of it. Whether it's a Mac or a PC. It's not something that's exclusive to Apple.

They certainly have made a name for themselves, but I think that's because of OS X. At the end of the day, if Macs only ran Windows -- the difference between them would be negligible. It's OS X that defines a Mac. And if you want OS X, you can't get it on anything else.

I think the reason that reviews are like that may be because it's not unexpected for Apple laptops to not have a removable battery, or a touch screen. It's been that way for a while. However there are a large variety of PC laptops competing against each other -- so noting that it doesn't have a touch screen or a removable battery may make more sense.

http://ark.intel.com/products/series/83614/Intel-Core-M-5Y-Mobile-Processor-Series

Look at the pricing. The processor cost the same, it likely more along the lines of apple exercising their volume to allocate exclusivity rights.

http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/apple-macbook-12-inch-retina-display-2015

The performance is comparable to one another too. They trade blows. The macbook likely has to throttle a bit more which keeps performance similar.

The panel will cost a bit more money but not that much more considering their both still IPS. Certainly not to justify a 600 dollar difference in price. Add in the dongles, which pretty much everyone has to get and you are at 1400 dollars or double the cost for a laptops which only significant difference as far as specs go is the screen resolution(and its annoying you have to carry around dongles in the first place too). They have comparable performance but one is basically double the price.

I don't know about you but I would rather save 700 dollars, and give up a screen resolution while gaining 3 usb 3.0 slots, a sd card slot and a micro hdmi port. Its crazy unless you have a dongle to be able to charge and use something like a usb stick or something.

Reality distortion is apple introduces a new product, people think its revolutionary. When they take away features, the public just accepts it. That's reality distortion.
post #184 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

It does not matter much. Even PCIE 3.0 x4 is more then enough for 1GB GPU.

For 2700 I would expect more than a 1gb gpu. When you consider the possibilities of the design with the gpu in the keyboard, away from the cpu, the room, ect, I would hope someone would take advantage with a better than average gpu.
Also, people were talking about wanting gpu upgrades available through upgrading the keyboard.

These, i would think, make the connection type matter.
post #185 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111 View Post

http://ark.intel.com/products/series/83614/Intel-Core-M-5Y-Mobile-Processor-Series

Look at the pricing. The processor cost the same, it likely more along the lines of apple exercising their volume to allocate exclusivity rights.

http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/apple-macbook-12-inch-retina-display-2015

The performance is comparable to one another too. They trade blows. The macbook likely has to throttle a bit more which keeps performance similar.

The panel will cost a bit more money but not that much more considering their both still IPS. Certainly not to justify a 600 dollar difference in price. Add in the dongles, which pretty much everyone has to get and you are at 1400 dollars or double the cost for a laptops which only significant difference as far as specs go is the screen resolution(and its annoying you have to carry around dongles in the first place too). They have comparable performance but one is basically double the price.

I don't know about you but I would rather save 700 dollars, and give up a screen resolution while gaining 3 usb 3.0 slots, a sd card slot and a micro hdmi port. Its crazy unless you have a dongle to be able to charge and use something like a usb stick or something.

Reality distortion is apple introduces a new product, people think its revolutionary. When they take away features, the public just accepts it. That's reality distortion.
I was more referring to what they would charge for a UX305 with the 1.1GHz CPU. Same for the screen. The low end UX305 is pretty great value, but they'd certainly charge more for it to add that higher resolution screen and the faster CPU.

Seems a bit weird to me that the slowest clocked CPU on that list is the same price as the fastest?

Yeah, and that's fair enough. It's highly subjective. If you don't care about the things the MacBook is offering (slightly faster CPU, higher res display) and care about what the UX305 is offering, then it only makes sense to get the UX. I'm just saying it's not quite fair to say it's the same thing for half the price because we don't know what the UX305 would cost with those upgrades. The MacBook would still be more expensive no doubt, but not double the price.

And for me, I'd not buy either. Don't see the point in laptops at all except if I wanna travel -- I'd buy it and then sell it when I got back. I'd get a gaming laptop too lol.
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post #186 of 260
for $1500 i could have bought a lenovo gtx 980m laptop off xotic pc over 6 months ago... meh, to each their own i guess. thumb.gif
    
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post #187 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

I was more referring to what they would charge for a UX305 with the 1.1GHz CPU. Same for the screen. The low end UX305 is pretty great value, but they'd certainly charge more for it to add that higher resolution screen and the faster CPU.

Seems a bit weird to me that the slowest clocked CPU on that list is the same price as the fastest?

Yeah, and that's fair enough. It's highly subjective. If you don't care about the things the MacBook is offering (slightly faster CPU, higher res display) and care about what the UX305 is offering, then it only makes sense to get the UX. I'm just saying it's not quite fair to say it's the same thing for half the price because we don't know what the UX305 would cost with those upgrades. The MacBook would still be more expensive no doubt, but not double the price.

And for me, I'd not buy either. Don't see the point in laptops at all except if I wanna travel -- I'd buy it and then sell it when I got back. I'd get a gaming laptop too lol.

The difference in price is a very real 600 dollars and is really 700 dollars.

The cost for screen upgrade from 1080P to 1440 isn't going to be that high.

For example on lenovo's website, to upgrade to a TN 1080P display to a IPS 1440p display is 150 dollars. Considering the ux305 was an IPS to begin with, that's a hundred dollar upgrade. As I shown the processor is priced the same and in reviews, the benchmarks performance is the same. Which likely means why Intel is charging the same price for the processors because both processors perform likely within a 1 ghz to 2 ghz window without actually hitting its peak or low end.

So you argument is mostly contingent on a screen resolution. And you know what's going to blow your mind.

Asus makes a 999 dollar configuration and this is still priced below the macbook but the specs blow it away.

http://store.asus.com/us/item/201505AM130000020/A22792

You get Intels top range 2.9ghz processor 5y71(which likely doesn't add anything to the cost which why this configuration is only 300 dollar upgrade ) which is faster than the macbooks.
a 512gb ssd
And a screen which blows the apple out of the way. A 3200*1800 IPS. This is a 73% increase over the macs.

To only partially match the processor from the Asus and SSD, apple is charging 1750 dollars for this configuration. Add in the dongles and your at $1850. Again almost double the price and your not matching spec for spec because the ASUS has a better screen. Down grade to apples resolution and this laptop could easily be 900 dollars.

At this point it should be pretty clear Apple is over charging. If you don't think apple is vastly overcharging, then the reality distortion effect is working on you too.
Edited by tajoh111 - 10/10/15 at 2:01am
post #188 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111 View Post

The difference in price is a very real 600 dollars and is really 700 dollars.

The cost for screen upgrade from 1080P to 1440 isn't going to be that high.

For example on lenovo's website, to upgrade to a TN 1080P display to a IPS 1440p display is 150 dollars. Considering the ux305 was an IPS to begin with, that's a hundred dollar upgrade. As I shown the processor is priced the same and in reviews, the benchmarks performance is the same. Which likely means why Intel is charging the same price for the processors because both processors perform likely within a 1 ghz to 2 ghz window without actually hitting its peak or low end.

So you argument is mostly contingent on a screen resolution. And you know what's going to blow your mind.

Asus makes a 999 dollar configuration and this is still priced below the macbook but the specs blow it away.

http://store.asus.com/us/item/201505AM130000020/A22792

You get Intels top range 2.9ghz processor 5y71(which likely doesn't add anything to the cost which why this configuration is only 300 dollar upgrade ) which is faster than the macbooks.
a 512gb ssd
And a screen which blows the apple out of the way. A 3200*1800 IPS. This is a 73% increase over the macs.

To only partially match the processor from the Asus and SSD, apple is charging 1750 dollars for this configuration. Add in the dongles and your at $1850. Again almost double the price and your not matching spec for spec because the ASUS has a better screen. Down grade to apples resolution and this laptop could easily be 900 dollars.

At this point it should be pretty clear Apple is over charging. If you don't think apple is vastly overcharging, then the reality distortion effect is working on you too.
Firstly I don't like how you're basically saying "if you don't agree with my opinion it's clear the 'reality distortion effect is working on you too'"
Secondly, I think you missed what I said. I'm not talking about how much it costs Asus to buy the CPU or the screen, but how much they'd charge the consumer for them.

Taking into account the 850$ cost of the UX305 w/ 512GB SSD, 1080p display and the 800MHz CPU, it seems they're charging about 150$ for the higher clocked CPU and high res display.

I'm not surprised at all -- I already said that even after adding a bit to the UX305's price to compensate for the hardware differences that the MacBook would still be more expensive.
What's this about dongles anyway? There's a USB-C to USB adaptor for $20 in the store.
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post #189 of 260
Really, imo, both of those are poor choices. I would take a slightly larger dell xps 13 with an i3 for 800 over either choice, 13.3 screen in basically an 11.6 body, or instead of retina macbook, the 13.3 retina pro that costs the same.

I understand light and portable but I wouldn't pay the premium to get much less performance for equal to higher price..buy a lumia 950 or something.. lol
post #190 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

Firstly I don't like how you're basically saying "if you don't agree with my opinion it's clear the 'reality distortion effect is working on you too'"
Secondly, I think you missed what I said. I'm not talking about how much it costs Asus to buy the CPU or the screen, but how much they'd charge the consumer for them.

Taking into account the 850$ cost of the UX305 w/ 512GB SSD, 1080p display and the 800MHz CPU, it seems they're charging about 150$ for the higher clocked CPU and high res display.

I'm not surprised at all -- I already said that even after adding a bit to the UX305's price to compensate for the hardware differences that the MacBook would still be more expensive.
What's this about dongles anyway? There's a USB-C to USB adaptor for $20 in the store.

What I think me and you are having a disagreement on is whether or not Apple is overcharging that much. I believe they are and you don't think they are that much.

The asus laptop I showed is 600 dollars cheaper and the difference in screen quality might change the price by 75-100 dollars but not by much(as I showed for the lenovo example). This still leaves the laptop being 500-525 dollars cheaper than the apple laptop which is quite substantial. The processor might be different but it results in very little realworld difference as benchmarks show and it's why intel is charging the same for the processor.

Why I mention the adaptor is because in all likelihood, you will not one to get the 20 dollar adaptor but rather that adaptor and the 80 dollar adaptor which adds critical functionality to the laptop. That being an adaptor that allows the laptop to be charged at the same time while using the usb functionality available for something like a thumb drive. That 20 dollar adaptor simply allows someone to use a standard usb key into the usb C port. You still cant charge and use the usb at the same time or connect a HDMI based monitor to the laptop. Getting that 80 dollar adaptor basically adds back the ports it should of had in the first place, ports that the Asus has and even more ports than that adaptor itself. Apple should be giving these away for free considering how much money they are already making on the laptop.

Add in that you can buy that asus laptop for 599 dollars now on the asus website, instead of 699 just shows you how fat Apples margins are which means they are making too much. Apple has 6 times the margins of everyone else and this means apple is making too much money. They have a cash reserve bigger than the combined hardware industry as a whole I am guessing yet their volume is way lower.

If you wanted to remove the monitor variable. Compare the 999.99 model I linked with Apples, 1599 model.

The Asus model has a faster processor and a superior screen to the apple. In fact to match up, you need to add 150 dollar CPU upgrade and you still have a screen with 73 percent less pixels than the Asus model.

So it's $999 vs $1750

And this should illustrate even more why apple is overcharging.

For 300 dollars, Asus managed to upgrade the SSD, the processor, give it an annodized white finish and the screen to something which is superiors to apples screen.

For 450 dollars, all apples managed to upgrade for that price is the processor and SSD. Add in 75 if you could upgrade the screen to match the Asus and your at 525 dollars which is 75% more.

The big difference is asus isn't trying to rip you off on a processor upgrade that cost zero money. Apple is pocketing that extra 150 dollars for themselves when it doesn't cost them any more for it. Apple is greedy.
Edited by tajoh111 - 10/11/15 at 12:38am
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