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[The Verge] Microsoft Surface Book - Page 9

post #81 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post

I am assuming their statement about it being twice as fast includes the user using the power of the dedicated Nvidia gpu. I believe MacBook Pro only comes with Intel integrated graphics. Not sure though because I am not an Apple fan.

The 13" this rivals with only has the integrated GPU, so if this includes a dedicated one, yeah, it will be faster.


Besides, I'm not interested in a 13+ tablet, and the way this closes, leaving a gap a hump, I'm not a fan of the design.
With apple most likely bringing an update to the rmbp by the end of the year, most likely the twice as fast will be swallowed by the "it's just not apple".
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post #82 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTHMfreak View Post

And looking at the apple site, it looks like the only MBP that comes with the m370x 2gb is the highest end one at $2499. The others come with intel integrated.

I swear, the only thing that keeps apple alive in the computer end of things is people with more dollars than sense.

Apple has made the best laptops on the market for the past decade, without question. This is the first year that anybody even came close, with the Dell XPS 13 and the MS Surface Book. Every other laptop is a huge compromise compared to a macbook.

Are they expensive? Sure, but my 2012 retina macbook pro is still better than 90% of brand new windows laptops three years later, and still has a 4-digit resale value.

Apple cares so much more about making their products technically superior than most people here give them credit for. It's just that people on OCN only care about MHZ and FPS and don't put appropriate value on things like display quality, portability, battery life, keyboard quality, or touchpad quality. Which is kind of weird considering how obsessive people here are about these things on desktops. On OCN it's perfectly okay to spend $250 on a mechanical keyboard because it is better, but spending $2200 instead of $2000 on a laptop because it has a superior keyboard makes you an idiot.

On Topic:

The Surface Book is probably the best laptop ever made and I'm very seriously considering replacing my macbook pro with one. The biggest obstacle for me is cost, it just gets really expensive to get the model with the dGPU, and the base model will end up being slower than my existing MBP.
Edited by aberrero - 10/6/15 at 9:21pm
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post #83 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by aberrero View Post

Apple has made the best laptops on the market for the past decade, without question. This is the first year that anybody even came close, with the Dell XPS 13 and the MS Surface Book. Every other laptop is a huge compromise compared to a macbook.

Are they expensive? Sure, but my 2012 retina macbook pro is still better than 90% of brand new windows laptops three years later, and still has a 4-digit resale value.

Apple cares so much more about making their products technically superior than most people here give them credit for. It's just that people on OCN only care about MHZ and FPS and don't put appropriate value on things like display quality, portability, battery life, keyboard quality, or touchpad quality. Which is kind of weird considering how obsessive people here are about these things on desktops. On OCN it's perfectly okay to spend $250 on a mechanical keyboard because it is better, but spending $2200 instead of $2000 on a laptop because it has a superior keyboard makes you an idiot.

On Topic:

The Surface Book is probably the best laptop ever made and I'm very seriously considering replacing my macbook pro with one. The biggest obstacle for me is cost, it just gets really expensive to get the model with the dGPU, and the base model will end up being slower than my existing MBP.

Don't know if serious or sarcastic.
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post #84 of 260
Interesting move from Microsoft... making an actual laptop... sounds pretty cool. Good that it has NVidia graphics.

Twice as fast as a MacBook Pro... bit vague. This is a quad-core, right? And it's a 13" laptop so they're probably comparing it to the 13" dual-core MacBook Pro.
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post #85 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir cuddles View Post

I've used a Surface Pro 3 as my only computer for over 10 weeks, in a variety of places and situations. The kickstand works perfectly fine almost all the time. The kickstand actually allows you to use the Surface in ways that you can't comfortably use normal laptops.

For example, if you are laying down with you knees bent up you can use the kickstand to hold the Surface up on them, and the keyboard will fall on your thighs. This is a very comfortable way to use the computer while laying down, and something you can't do with a standard laptop.


The way you're describing it, unless you're rather tall from the waist up, it's likely that the screen will end up in a position where your eyes won't be level with the top of the screen, in fact, it will probably be a bit uncomfortable to look at it because of the ergonomics involved. But I guess that will depend on the exact position you're in and how tall you are.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sub50hz View Post

But... it's only a single position that I have an issue with -- in a lap. Which is why I still own a laptop. Probably a bit more doable if I hadn't discovered the virtues of beer, but I digress. I must ask, since you feel very strongly that the kickstand was a poor design -- do you own one or have you used one over a period of, say, a couple of months? I think most of the complaints about the design stem from those who don't have a use for it, and while I don't think it's the greatest piece of kit, it's certainly viable in my day-to-day, whether it's taking notes in meetings and collaborating with Sharepoint or doing quick network diagramming without having to use a mouse and keyboard with Visio.

You mentioned two occasions where a laptop is better, on your lap and on the train, hence the plural when I referred to your post (unless where you live trains don't have a small table and you also use it on your lap there):
Quote:
In what way? The SP4 has the same kickstand as the SP3, which works very well in practce, although speaking from experience, less so in your lap. Non-issue on a plane, at least in business class, though I would absolutely agree that the stability offered by a traditional laptop form factor is more versatile if you spend a lot of time on a train (which I do, and it's the main reason I carry a laptop to and from work). For writing though, the tablet is great.

As to using one, I don't need to in order to have the opinion I have (not to mention that it is validated in practice by articles such as the one from Ars which I quoted). Why? Because in the positions and spaces I use my Netbook that thing would never work because of the lack of hinge and the space the kickstand uses (as I mentioned, in small tables where with a conventional laptop / netbook the whole screen can be hovering already beyond the end of the table, which is physically impossible with a Surface).
Edited by tpi2007 - 10/7/15 at 1:10am
 
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post #86 of 260
The rMBP 13 starts at 200$ less. If the surface book lowest specs comes without a dGPU, than the rMBP 13 will still be better price/performance wise.

The fact that the surface book can be a tablet is nice unless you remember it only last 3 hours.

Overall it will really depends on the specs of each price bracket of the surface book. At 1499$ starting price, it will really depends on what you are getting for that price.

And it is still too small to compete with the rMBP 15. And specs wise the 2499$ rMBP 15, with quad core i7, 512GB PCIE SSD, 16GB memory, how much will the surface pro will cost to match these specs?

Stating "starting with 1499$" without any more information regarding specs, and claiming any performance leverage, is a bit sleazy.
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post #87 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

The rMBP 13 starts at 200$ less. If the surface book lowest specs comes without a dGPU, than the rMBP 13 will still be better price/performance wise.

The fact that the surface book can be a tablet is nice unless you remember it only last 3 hours.

Overall it will really depends on the specs of each price bracket of the surface book. At 1499$ starting price, it will really depends on what you are getting for that price.

And it is still too small to compete with the rMBP 15. And specs wise the 2499$ rMBP 15, with quad core i7, 512GB PCIE SSD, 16GB memory, how much will the surface pro will cost to match these specs?

Stating "starting with 1499$" without any more information regarding specs, and claiming any performance leverage, is a bit sleazy.


To be fair, according to the TR article I referred to in a post above the screen is apparently able to be plugged in the other way around so the back of the sceen faces the keyboard - that way you can use it as a tablet and get the benefits of the two batteries and all the rest that comes with the docking keyboard.

As to your last statement, indeed. The GPU performance for example is still unknown. The Maxwell GPU (Nvidia only confirmed it's a Maxwell part, but didn't say which) can be either a GM 107 or GM 108 part, and in both cases it will most likely be underclocked compared to what can be found in traditional notebooks.
 
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post #88 of 260
So looking at the MS YouTube video the NVidia GPU is in the base and the Intel CPU is in the tablet part. Guess you will take a major hit in graphics performance when you go into table mode. Saves on battery life and I guess you do not really need that much graphics power in table mode. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVfOe5mFbAE&feature=youtu.be
post #89 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

Interesting move from Microsoft... making an actual laptop... sounds pretty cool. Good that it has NVidia graphics.

Twice as fast as a MacBook Pro... bit vague. This is a quad-core, right? And it's a 13" laptop so they're probably comparing it to the 13" dual-core MacBook Pro.

More like SB only gear up with 2 cores, with CPU is in a 7.7mm tablet form I really doubt they can put anything other than U serries processor in there


My guess is they compared the nVidia version of SB to the rMBP13, the dGPU then brings the difference, otherwise I dont see how its HD graphic make an doubled performance compared to rMBP's Iris6100


While I found the SB interesting, the price is still appear to be a bit high to me, even when compare to the rMBPs, but hey, it's cool, the touch screen and the stylus may worth it, perhaps
post #90 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

To be fair, according to the TR article I referred to in a post above the screen is apparently able to be plugged in the other way around so the back of the sceen faces the keyboard - that way you can use it as a tablet and get the benefits of the two batteries and all the rest that comes with the docking keyboard.

As to your last statement, indeed. The GPU performance for example is still unknown. The Maxwell GPU (Nvidia only confirmed it's a Maxwell part, but didn't say which) can be either a GM 107 or GM 108 part, and in both cases it will most likely be underclocked compared to what can be found in traditional notebooks.

The problem with turning the screen, it is still a laptop, not a tablet. It will still be too heavy and too big to be a laptop. It might be a nice for writing or drawing, but for that, and most likely a much lower price, might as well get the surface pro 4 with a thin keyboard.
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