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[TechSpot] Activists call Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement the "biggest global threat to the internet" - Page 2

post #11 of 60
I hate the world.
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post #12 of 60
Quote:
We have got to stop sending jobs overseas. It's pretty simple: If you're paying $12, $13, $14 an hour for factory workers and you can move your factory South of the border, pay a dollar an hour for labor,...have no health care—that's the most expensive single element in making a car— have no environmental controls, no pollution controls and no retirement, and you don't care about anything but making money, there will be a giant sucking sound going south.
...when [Mexico's] jobs come up from a dollar an hour to six dollars an hour, and ours go down to six dollars an hour, and then it's leveled again. But in the meantime, you've wrecked the country with these kinds of deals.



23 years ago Ross Perot spoke about a giant sucking sound that could be heard on the passing of NAFTA.

he was absolutely right and was vilified by the mainstream media and the politicians in Washington and Canada.

and iirc nobody except big corps benefited from NAFTA.

can anyone name a trade deal that was ever good for the middle and lower classes?
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post #13 of 60
Mussolini would be shocked. He envisioned a world in which governments and corporations were merged into one, enforced by the arm of the police state (what we have now). He could never have imagined that we would go beyond fascism and create a world in which corporations are above the sovereign states and that their profit, greed and stupidity, would be placed above the very survival of the planet and that we would so gladly doom ourselves to oblivion just to make this fictitious thing called money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master__Shake View Post

23 years ago Ross Perot spoke about a giant sucking sound that could be heard on the passing of NAFTA.

he was absolutely right and was vilified by the mainstream media and the politicians in Washington and Canada.

and iirc nobody except big corps benefited from NAFTA.

can anyone name a trade deal that was ever good for the middle and lower classes?

None as they all encourage offshoring of jobs and the moving of money to tax havens. Companies who do not and keep their money and jobs at home are levied with taxes and thus there is an active incentive not to keep money and jobs where they should be. NAFTA has been a disaster for both the US and Mexico.
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

this is still way better than sopa. maybe this will shut the media companies up...i'm sure it won't. lobbyists need to get paid

In what way is this better than SOPA? Corporations will be elevated to above that of a sovereign state, allowing them to sue a government in secret courts, set up by the corporations for the corporations, for lost income and profits for putting their citizens before corporate greed.
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post #14 of 60
u create/innovate something amazing to sell at those countries, somehow.... someone evil in america decide to pattern a similar technology. Now u prepared to get sued for the product u created for ur own country.
Edited by Clocknut - 10/6/15 at 7:52pm
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post #15 of 60
I am honestly intrigued with this and would like someone to explain more in details if possible. Apart from the possibility of US excellent patent laws being exported to the mentioned countries biggrin.gif as well as the more power to control the internet, wont this agreement brings more benefit or advantage economically? I'm no expert in this so please go easy on me.
post #16 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mojo View Post

Our copyright laws are so good, we want to share them with everyone else!
    Wouldn't that be copyright infringement?  They should have to pay royalties on our copyright laws.  That will teach them!  lachen.gif
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post #17 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozz13 View Post

...wont this agreement brings more benefit or advantage economically? I'm no expert in this so please go easy on me.

Well sure it will, if you happen to own any marketable intellectual property such as a drug patent, or if you own a manufacturing plant that sells a product currently suffering from import taxes in a member nation.
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post #18 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozz13 View Post

I am honestly intrigued with this and would like someone to explain more in details if possible. Apart from the possibility of US excellent patent laws being exported to the mentioned countries biggrin.gif as well as the more power to control the internet, wont this agreement brings more benefit or advantage economically? I'm no expert in this so please go easy on me.

The Bill and Melinda foundation got kicked out of India and prosecuted for their tainted vaccine that caused thousands of girls to die and become infertile. Under these trade agreements not only wouldn't the Indian government not be able to kick them out of India but a corporation would sue India for lost income and profits.

Or let's take EU countries banning GMO's. Monsanto would be able to sue France, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, etc. for banning GMO's. Intellectual property rights are a lie as they only extend to US corporations and their dictates and even that isn't certain as the agreement has to be passed before those worthless fools in Congress and the Senate get to see what was in it in years to come. They are so bought and paid for they don't even care to know what's in it when they pass it. Who cares? We got our bribes is their motto.

The courts are secret courts. We, the public, have no idea which rules, laws and principles govern them. They are closed door courts whose rulings are not published and all is kept hidden and secret.

This is why Obama was granted fast track authority, they know that if it became public nobody in their right mind would agree to it, after all what if the agreement also encompasses the US itself? A state that refuses to accept a faulty car because the engine blows up will get sued for lost profits, despite the car being faulty and randomly blowing up killing people.

This is the essence of the two trade agreements being negotiated and the Trans Atlantic one isn't doing too well. France and Germany are, reportedly, refusing to accept these secret courts, which the US are desperately pushing for.

Free market governance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce65 View Post

Well sure it will, if you happen to own any marketable intellectual property such as a drug patent, or if you own a manufacturing plant that sells a product currently suffering from import taxes in a member nation.

I'm sure we can all make 'marketable' products regardless of safety and quality.
Edited by Liranan - 10/6/15 at 8:27pm
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post #19 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master__Shake View Post

23 years ago Ross Perot spoke about a giant sucking sound that could be heard on the passing of NAFTA.

he was absolutely right and was vilified by the mainstream media and the politicians in Washington and Canada.

and iirc nobody except big corps benefited from NAFTA.

can anyone name a trade deal that was ever good for the middle and lower classes?

Trade deals are not intrinsically bad. Corporations are not intrinsically bad. But just like a program that managed to/was granted elevate privileges and snag FIFO/FCFS scheduling priority and then decide to never yield; bad things happen to any system when we don't keep things in line.

More specifically NAFTA would have been a better thing for all if the share of the increased profits were not so highly concentrated. And that is the problem now and will accelerate in the future; resource allocations are going to increasingly polarize/diverge.
     
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post #20 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

The Bill and Melinda foundation got kicked out of India and prosecuted for their tainted vaccine that caused thousands of girls to die and become infertile. Under these trade agreements not only wouldn't the Indian government not be able to kick them out of India but a corporation would sue India for lost income and profits.

Or let's take EU countries banning GMO's. Monsanto would be able to sue France, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, etc. for banning GMO's. Intellectual property rights are a lie as they only extend to US corporations and their dictates and even that isn't certain as the agreement has to be passed before those worthless fools in Congress and the Senate get to see what was in it in years to come. They are so bought and paid for they don't even care to know what's in it when they pass it. Who cares? We got our bribes is their motto.

The courts are secret courts. We, the public, have no idea which rules, laws and principles govern them. They are closed door courts whose rulings are not published and all is kept hidden and secret.

This is why Obama was granted fast track authority, they know that if it became public nobody in their right mind would agree to it, after all what if the agreement also encompasses the US itself? A state that refuses to accept a faulty car because the engine blows up will get sued for lost profits, despite the car being faulty and randomly blowing up killing people.

This is the essence of the two trade agreements being negotiated and the Trans Atlantic one isn't doing too well. France and Germany are, reportedly, refusing to accept these secret courts, which the US are desperately pushing for.

Free market governance.
I'm sure we can all make 'marketable' products regardless of safety and quality.
That's literally not how any of that stuff works. Absolutely nothing you said was either correct or reasonable.
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