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Using both CPU GPU and External GPU - Page 3

post #21 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post

nvidia optimus is just switching technology (it doesn't actually let the adapters work together) so that the CPU's iGPU can work and the dGPU shuts down to save battery life, there isn't a need for this on the desktop. There was something called QuickSync that allowed the iGPU to render things like transcoding, I think Intel gave up on it for the desktop
Huh? QuickSync is certainly still alive and well and featured on the majority of desktop CPUs. It's totally unrelated to what we're talking about here, but it still remains the fastest way to transcode, beating even GPU transcode by a significant margin.
post #22 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaze2210 View Post

Combined, not switching back and forth between the GPUs....
By "eventually" I meant "at last", because now, iGPU remains unused. Combined is even better because there will be less issues with switching.
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post #23 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by olokos View Post

By "eventually" I meant "at last", because now, iGPU remains unused. Combined is even better because there will be less issues with switching.

I was just clarifying. biggrin.gif It would be nice to not just have the iGPU just hanging out there, but then again, CPU temps would also rise. That's what I noticed when I had to RMA my card and was forced to use the onboard video.
post #24 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by olokos View Post

By "eventually" I meant "at last", because now, iGPU remains unused. Combined is even better because there will be less issues with switching.
Not sure how you conclude that the ability to combine/team necessarily entails there will be less issues with switching. The two are not necessarily related.

Also teaming an iGPU with a graphics card, even if you could do it is pretty futile other than with low-end videocards. Using Dual Graphics (which you can do today) with an AMD A10 APU and an R7 250 makes some sense as you can significantly improve the performance of either on its own. However to team an iGPU of even that level with a card like an R9 270X (which is lower midrange) makes a lot less sense since the 270X is already at least an order of magnitude better performance--teaming the iGPU is just going to do basically nothing and maybe give you a few FPS, tops if it doesn't end up decreasing performance. It's like saying hey why don't they make a motherboard where you can team a P4 with an Skylake i7, lol. What's that going to do? Increase performance by 0.5%?

Anyway I highly doubt DX12 is going to magically allow you to team Intel with AMD, AMD with Nvidia, and all this kind of stuff people are saying--some people think it's like the next coming of JC or something LOL.
post #25 of 30
Thread Starter 
There would be no switching since they will be running simultaneously. Comparing Intel HD Graphics 4600 to P4 is not really sensible. You can run lots of games on it, without any other GPU.
http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/intelhdgraphics4600/sb/CS-034993.htm - here's a list of games that are playable just on HD 4600 alone. This iGPU isn't THAT bad, so it can improve framerate actually, especially since DX12 uses a smart way to combine these two.

NOBODY in this thread said anything about combining intel/amd amd/nvidia, so I don't know why you all of sudden came up with it...
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post #26 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaze2210 View Post

Ah, good info! thumb.gif

I knew that DX12 was supposed to be bringing the ability to use different cards together, but I didn't know that it extended to the iGPU as well. Good to know!

It's actually been demo'd, but the way that it was done wasn't worth using for gaming at all. It would be decent with the combination of powerful iGPU and weak discrete graphics - but with something like hd4600 and a 970, it just ended up being a 10% increase in FPS for a 50% increase in input lag. The iGPU didn't work on the same frame at the same time as the more powerful GPU - basically the 970 just finished 90% of the frame and then passed it to the integrated graphics, which then took forever to do the last 10% (post-processing effects etc).

As the 970 only had to do 90% of the work per frame, the frames got done ~10% faster - but instead of a frame taking 20ms for example, the 970 would work on it for 18ms and then pass it to the integrated, which worked on it for 14ms more. Total time: 32ms per frame instead of 20ms.

Numbers made up off the top of my head but approximately correct

Here's a picture of it, actually. My proportions were almost exactly correct from memory



You see there is a small FPS gain (in the region of ~10%) but frame 1 takes forever to complete with the iGPU working on it
Edited by Cyro999 - 10/20/15 at 6:07am
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post #27 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

It's actually been demo'd, but the way that it was done wasn't worth using for gaming at all. It would be decent with the combination of powerful iGPU and weak discrete graphics - but with something like hd4600 and a 970, it just ended up being a 10% increase in FPS for a 50% increase in input lag. The iGPU didn't work on the same frame at the same time as the more powerful GPU - basically the 970 just finished 90% of the frame and then passed it to the integrated graphics, which then took forever to do the last 10% (post-processing effects etc).

As the 970 only had to do 90% of the work per frame, the frames got done ~10% faster - but instead of a frame taking 20ms for example, the 970 would work on it for 18ms and then pass it to the integrated, which worked on it for 14ms more. Total time: 32ms per frame instead of 20ms.

Numbers made up off the top of my head but approximately correct

Here's a picture of it, actually. My proportions were almost exactly correct from memory
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

You see there is a small FPS gain (in the region of ~10%) but frame 1 takes forever to complete with the iGPU working on it

So basically, it's just like using LucidMVP.... That kinda sucks. biggrin.gif
post #28 of 30
I just think of IGPU's as a just-in-case for if your dedicated GPU fails. I've been saved by onboard GPU's before when GFX cards have failed.

The only reason why CPU's come with them is because It's easier and more cost effective to put it on the CPU rather than the motherboard. In typical business use scenario's one wouldn't need a dedicated GPU at all.

DX12 will bring igpu+gpu, but I think simply having a better card is a better option in the long run. You could probably squeeze 10% FPS out of almost any card too....and sure while you can say 110%+IGPU could be even greater still, it would still just be better to have a better card in the first place or turn down a setting. I mean we're talking about years of gaming, why not spend the extra $50-$100 or so? That's less than $10 a month after a year, well worth it in the long run. Go big or go home, unless you play low requirement games. Anyone who wants a half decent gaming PC today, I wouldn't recommend anything less than GTX 970 performance levels.

Over the past decade I always bought $150 GPU's, but spending ~$300 or so really is worthwhile, even if you are tight with your money.
Edited by AMDATI - 10/20/15 at 9:10am
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post #29 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by olokos View Post

NOBODY in this thread said anything about combining intel/amd amd/nvidia, so I don't know why you all of sudden came up with it...
LOL what? Look at the very post below yours for starters. And the just think about it for a second. If you're combining an Intel iGPU with another GPU it would almost have to be either Nvidia or AMD. Did you think we were all talking about combining it with PowerVR or something? Or maybe Matrox? LMAO!

Intel doesn't exactly make doesn't exactly make videocards or have their GPUs on dedicated cards do they? So clearly it's implied that's what would be happening, unless you thought you were combining two motherboards or a desktop and a laptop somehow? lol What else would we possibly combine with other than AMD or Nvidia?

And since AMD can already combine with their own iGPUs and Nvidia has none, then what difference would DX12 make there unless you could combine an AMD iGPU with an Nvidia dedicated card? Only Nvidia and AMD drivers don't play nice on the same system and haven't for a very long time which would probably cause issues even if DX12 could combine them.

Plus as shown above combining real GPUs from midrange and up with iGPUs sucks as you should have realised from the get go instead of talking about how you play games on HD4000. Yeah you can play games but what happens when you up the resolution and settings to something you'd be playing on, with something like a GTX 960 or R9 280? At those levels you can't play games unless you consider 7FPS as gameplay. And how's that going to help out a GTX 960 which is already getting 45-60FPS those settings? I'll tell you how it will help out--it won't.
post #30 of 30
It would be wasteful to even attempt to run AMD/Nvidia cards at the same time. The reason igpu+gpu will work together is because the igpu will be doing post processing while the main gpu starts work on the next frame. Dedicated gpu's don't even work together in the same brand, let alone different ones. Older generations for example can't be paired with newer ones. And running AMD/Nvidia side by side would be a waste even if it was possible, the slowest card would bog things down or add little to no benefit entirely.
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