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[Backblaze] - Hard Drive Reliability Stats for Q3 2015 - Page 8

post #71 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Drives that survive beyond the conditions they are intended for will almost certainly last longer in the conditions they are intended for.

Any argument to the effect that more headroom or margin when it comes to durability is somehow not a good this a flawed one. These are all drives in the same segment with similar cost and similar performance...any statistically significant difference in failure rate is relevant if you want to have a drive most likely to survive in the long term.

My own modest sample size (about thirty drives at any given time and maybe a few hundred in total) closely mirrors Blackblaze's statistics.

True but it all depends how much you are willing to spend. You don't have to buy 3TB Seagates. You can buy their Enterprise version and will be more reliable.
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post #72 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PR-Imagery View Post

Not the same logic, most of those drives that failed would work fine under conditions they're designed for.

Drives that survive beyond the conditions they are intended for will almost certainly last longer in the conditions they are intended for.

Any argument to the effect that more headroom or margin when it comes to durability is somehow not a good this a flawed one. These are all drives in the same segment with similar cost and similar performance...any statistically significant difference in failure rate is relevant if you want to have a drive most likely to survive in the long term.

My own modest sample size (about thirty drives at any given time and maybe a few hundred in total) closely mirrors Blackblaze's statistics.

Did I say it was a bad thing?
 
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post #73 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

Cool. I store mine on NAND.
These clicking, slow, spinning disks should have died out ages ago along with Zip disks and floppy disks. Thats where they belong
Sure in a few years for just bulk storage value they can't be beaten and I know that when you actually use it as a main disk or loading things from it a SSD is preferred but HDDs are great for storing bulk data that you don't have to access/move really fast. You think a telescope array uses SSD? Nope even after filtering HDDs are used because there is so very much data.

In 5-10 years we will be using NAND for everything I'm sure of that but 8TB for 300 bucks is an amazing deal that can't be beaten in terms of storage/dollar.
post #74 of 88
Quote:
Always consider the number of drives (Max # in Service) when looking at the failure rate. For example, the 1.5TB Seagate Barracuda Green drive has a failure rate of 130.9%, but that is based on only 51 drives. We tested these Seagate drives in one Storage Pod in our environment and they were not a good fit. In general, we’ve found it takes at least 6 Storage Pods (270 drives) worth of drives to get good sense of how a given drive will perform in our environment.

This statement does not make sense to me. I am not sure how they are doing their percentage calculations but a 130% failure rate on 51 drives means that 66 drives failed. How did they manage to have 66 drives fail when they only had 51 drives? I am obviously missing something here but I can't figure out what it is.
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post #75 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

Are you sure? Looking at the table it looks like they're including ~30,000 Seagate drives, which seems to be far more than any other manufacturer (HGST is around ~20,000 disks)...
It was in reference to the specific drives with unusual failure rate percentages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

It might be helpful to read their articles... they're pretty up-front about all of this...
I did, and it still doesn't make sense. They practically abandoned any concerted effort to ascertain enterprise drive reliability vs. consumer around 2 years ago (before the improved enclosures were made, mind you), and their testing methodology as noted before is a bit sketchy even with improved enclosures.
Quote:
It could be that the vaunted reliability of enterprise drives kicks in after two years, but because we haven’t seen any of that reliability in the first two years, I’m skeptical.
I'm not a big fan of their logic when they say this. They attempted an apples-to-apples comparison with a huge pile of apples and a small bag of oranges that look like apples. If anything it might mean they need to see if their testing environment is impacting the numbers, and/or only compare similar numbers of each kind of drive to each other.
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post #76 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

Hard Drives....how cute.

Thought they went extinct along when the dinosaurs died out

Yeah, affordable 4,6, and 8TB SSDs are flying off the shelves.
     
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post #77 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

Yeah, affordable 4,6, and 8TB SSDs are flying off the shelves.
This
post #78 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoGTy View Post

This isn't 2009. SSDs can be written to without a problem for several hundred terabytes at-least...

What is it with people and misinformation?

Yes, indeed, what is it with misinformation....?



Two companies that deal a lot in flash - Texas Instruments and Macronix have perfumed accelerated testing on flash memory and found that the more you use a flash device, the less time the flash memory cells will retain data. However, if the flash device is kept at high temperatures, the data retention time can fall of a cliff. This data retention lifetime graph from a Macronix application note Source
shows brand new flash memory cells (less than 10 program/erase or P/E cycles of use) will hold data for 100,000 years @ 24 degrees C. Crank that up say.. 60 degrees C and its just 1.000 yrs.
Before you laugh too hard, these are accelerated tests so go with me on this for a bit.. take flash memory flogged up to 100,000 P/E cycles and it'll retain data for around 100 years IF kept at 25 C. But push that flash cell to 60 C and it'll struggle to retain data for just a single year. Push 80 C and you may get 5 weeks...

60 C and 80 C are considered today rather extreme temperatures but with the generally agreed principal of climate warming taking place... who knows if they really will be extreme in the future??
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post #79 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by PR-Imagery View Post

Did I say it was a bad thing?
you did say that their tests were irrelevant.
post #80 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky_Chimp View Post

It was in reference to the specific drives with unusual failure rate percentages.
If you review the data you will find that this is only true of one of the high-failure-rate drives, where a clear disclaimer is offered and the number of drives is statistically irrelevant (51/~30,000).
Quote:
I did, and it still doesn't make sense. They practically abandoned any concerted effort to ascertain enterprise drive reliability vs. consumer around 2 years ago (before the improved enclosures were made, mind you), and their testing methodology as noted before is a bit sketchy even with improved enclosures.
I'm not a big fan of their logic when they say this. They attempted an apples-to-apples comparison with a huge pile of apples and a small bag of oranges that look like apples. If anything it might mean they need to see if their testing environment is impacting the numbers, and/or only compare similar numbers of each kind of drive to each other.
Oh, sure - it is true that they could've been more exhaustive in testing enterprise drives and that their conclusion here is questionable.

I was more referring to your use of phrases like "mission-critical environment" (they explain that their environment is not mission critical, pods sometimes don't see activity for months), and also that they are plainly upfront about testing consumer drives and their lack of data on enterprise drives.

Finally, having purchased hundreds of constellations and REs and whathaveyou, I can say that, IME, they actually aren't much better (in terms of MTTF) attached to a RAID than some good consumer disks. All you are paying for is firmware... but that's neither here nor there. smile.gif
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