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[DailyMail UK]Have researchers discovered an alien MEGASTRUCTURE? 'Bizarre' star could be surrounded by a Dyson sphere built by extraterrestrials, researchers claim - Page 14

post #131 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by skruppe View Post

The human brain is extremely power efficient so no healthy human brain require tons of energy to power something using as much energy as an average LE-bulb. Being aggressive and predatory is the opposite of utilizing the big brain as it for a long time has been the easiest way to get yourself killed. Natural selection is the reason aggressive people are better of not using their brain at all, less to worry about for normal people.

Natural selection (as we understand it in nature) does not apply to humans. Natural selection, meaning survival of the fittest, does NOT mean survival of the strongest. It means passing the genes to future generations. In which case, the poor with lots of children would generally be considered much more fit than the rich with few or no children. That guy cheating with several women and having children with those women, or the guy in a polygamy with lots of children, or that royalty with the harem, would be considered the most fit of all.

In nature, aggressiveness is very much a survival necessity. We cannot disregard our origins as being on the same level as animals. Our brains, at least initially, were used to how to better hunt for food and how to get the girl. We lack any physical advantage over other animals, and thus utilizing our brains to hunt (and thus be aggressive) was very much a necessity. Our brains were not evolved for advancement of society. Changing conditions (namely surplus of food through agriculture) allowed people to use their brains for things other than hunting for food and getting the girl, but it was not the original purpose.
Edited by Tsumi - 10/22/15 at 1:08am
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post #132 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

Natural selection (as we understand it in nature) does not apply to humans. Natural selection, meaning survival of the fittest, does NOT mean survival of the strongest. It means passing the genes to future generations. In which case, the poor with lots of children would generally be considered much more fit than the rich with few or no children. That guy cheating with several women and having children with those women, or the guy in a polygamy with lots of children, or that royalty with the harem, would be considered the most fit of all.

In nature, aggressiveness is very much a survival necessity. We cannot disregard our origins as being on the same level as animals. Our brains, at least initially, were used to how to better hunt for food and how to get the girl. We lack any physical advantage over other animals, and thus utilizing our brains to hunt (and thus be aggressive) was very much a necessity. Our brains were not evolved for advancement of society. Changing conditions (namely surplus of food through agriculture) allowed people to use their brains for things other than hunting for food and getting the girl, but it was not the original purpose.

Natural selection used to apply before we got too comfy: http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-human-fist-punching-evolution-males--20151021-story.html
boxing3.gif
Who knows what kind of weirdness an advanced race may have twisted into in eons of luxury.
Probably still has anger issues though. Animals are guided by emotions too, and they seem like the most direct method of promoting social development. We aren't losing those anytime soon.
post #133 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

Natural selection (as we understand it in nature) does not apply to humans. Natural selection, meaning survival of the fittest, does NOT mean survival of the strongest. It means passing the genes to future generations. In which case, the poor with lots of children would generally be considered much more fit than the rich with few or no children. That guy cheating with several women and having children with those women, or the guy in a polygamy with lots of children, or that royalty with the harem, would be considered the most fit of all.

In nature, aggressiveness is very much a survival necessity. We cannot disregard our origins as being on the same level as animals. Our brains, at least initially, were used to how to better hunt for food and how to get the girl. We lack any physical advantage over other animals, and thus utilizing our brains to hunt (and thus be aggressive) was very much a necessity. Our brains were not evolved for advancement of society. Changing conditions (namely surplus of food through agriculture) allowed people to use their brains for things other than hunting for food and getting the girl, but it was not the original purpose.

If aggressiveness is a necessity for survival please explain why there are so many passive creatures on the planet that do not aspire to wipe one another out.

Even among the dinosaurs there were giant passive animals with no traits that allowed them to defend themselves and still they exists for millions of years until they, all of a sudden went extinct en mass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rluker5 View Post

Natural selection used to apply before we got too comfy: http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-human-fist-punching-evolution-males--20151021-story.html
boxing3.gif
Who knows what kind of weirdness an advanced race may have twisted into in eons of luxury.
Probably still has anger issues though. Animals are guided by emotions too, and they seem like the most direct method of promoting social development. We aren't losing those anytime soon.

What a nonsensical article as always by quacks who desperately try to justify believing a so called theory even its own founder didn't believe and said was everything but scientific.

Before you people have a fit about that so called theory please explain why lemurs, who have fists, never strike one another.

Just because we are an extremely violent society that will gladly wipe itself out for monetary profit doesn't mean the entire universe is the same. Even on our own planet there are people who do not hold these very same ideals and live very peaceful, passive and community orientated lives that are not corrupted by greed.
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post #134 of 162
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Originally Posted by Valor958 View Post

Actually we might be one of the first intelligent life forms in the universe. That may explain why we haven't seen any others yet. The others that arose the same time as us are probably in other galaxies.

Except it may turn out that life didn't start here but was seeded.

I don't believe in tin foil hat theories, but more and more evidence is starting to support that life, in certain circumstances, might be able to survive interstellar space in some fashion. We certainly know organic matter isn't rare.
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post #135 of 162
Any intelligent life that traveres the galaxy will most likely be an artificial intelligence. Our society, even at conservative estimates, is about 100 yearsfrom creating artificial imtelligence, 10 years by liberal estimates, we all agree that when that when that happens our civilization will be irrevocably changed for good or ill but humanity as we know it stops at it's creation.

Given the relatively short time frame between the industrial revolution and the massive change brought on by AI, it wouldn't be out of the question to assume that any intelligent life that wanted to traverse the vast distances of space would have to be artificial. Space faring would be alot easier for an AI than a human. So going off that assumption it's more than likely that space faring civilizations aren't biological.

Also if it turns out Earth is one of the first planets to host life then it could stand to reason that we're at present one of very few planets harboring any intelligence in the galaxy.
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post #136 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

What a nonsensical article as always by quacks who desperately try to justify believing a so called theory even its own founder didn't believe and said was everything but scientific.

Before you people have a fit about that so called theory please explain why lemurs, who have fists, never strike one another.

Just because we are an extremely violent society that will gladly wipe itself out for monetary profit doesn't mean the entire universe is the same. Even on our own planet there are people who do not hold these very same ideals and live very peaceful, passive and community orientated lives that are not corrupted by greed.

I thought it was an easy opening to post an entertaining article. Sure they were wasting money punching stuff with cadaver arms. The study they referenced that came to the conclusion that the human skull evolved to take punches was probably even more fun to conduct.

And since you're arguing, youtube disagrees with your lemur claim. And life that is driven to do stuff probably is driven to do stuff, docile life would probably just do enough to attain comfort in the near term.

I do find redfroth's AI idea for interstellar travel likely and reassuring. Heck, we've tossed junk out there already. Just not AI yet.
post #137 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by redfroth View Post

Any intelligent life that traveres the galaxy will most likely be an artificial intelligence. Our society, even at conservative estimates, is about 100 yearsfrom creating artificial imtelligence, 10 years by liberal estimates, we all agree that when that when that happens our civilization will be irrevocably changed for good or ill but humanity as we know it stops at it's creation.

Given the relatively short time frame between the industrial revolution and the massive change brought on by AI, it wouldn't be out of the question to assume that any intelligent life that wanted to traverse the vast distances of space would have to be artificial. Space faring would be alot easier for an AI than a human. So going off that assumption it's more than likely that space faring civilizations aren't biological.

Also if it turns out Earth is one of the first planets to host life then it could stand to reason that we're at present one of very few planets harboring any intelligence in the galaxy.


Also the theory is that once a civilization becomes advanced enough, it won't even bother leaving its home system, instead preferring to create a dysonsphereish type creation, then creating a digital world and uploading their civilization into it.

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2014/12/alien-minds-we-will-encounter-superintelligence-much-older-than-the-human-species.html
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post #138 of 162
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Originally Posted by redfroth View Post

Also if it turns out Earth is one of the first planets to host life then it could stand to reason that we're at present one of very few planets harboring any intelligence in the galaxy.

Most of the compounds found in our biochemistry are abundant in the early universe. All the ingredients seem to be out there. With all that we don't know about existence in general, I find it difficult to reason we're one of the first planets to host life.

Just knowing how bizarre and complex cellular mechanics are, it's not a far fetch to say that many of those mechanisms could predate our solar system... like the iron in our blood being blown our way from a past supernova, maybe some primordial genetic information came along with it.
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post #139 of 162
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Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post

Most of the compounds found in our biochemistry are abundant in the early universe. All the ingredients seem to be out there. With all that we don't know about existence in general, I find it difficult to reason we're one of the first planets to host life.

Just knowing how bizarre and complex cellular mechanics are, it's not a far fetch to say that many of those mechanisms could predate our solar system... like the iron in our blood being blown our way from a past supernova, maybe some primordial genetic information came along with it.

The Earth is about 4.5 Billion years old. By contrast the Universe is about 13.7 billion years old. Meaning in that 9.2 billion years the Big Bang happens, expansion beings, the Universe cools enough for matter to form, the first galaxies form, and then stars and planets coalesce around them. Earth has been here for an estimated 1/3 of the span of the Universe and it just now, the last 5 million years, has developed intelligent life. I'm not saying that we're the only intelligent life in the galaxy, but we maybe part of a very exclusive club. A galaxy with a count of only a few hundred or even less than 1000 intelligent civilizations would be pretty sparse, even if they were space faring, and that's not counting the ones included in that number that destroyed themselves or were destroyed by some cosmic disaster.

When you think that Earth is 1/3 the age of the Universe, the Universe actually seems pretty young in that regard.
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post #140 of 162
The evolution of organic matter in the universe, it's an interesting read:

http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/369/1936/538
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [DailyMail UK]Have researchers discovered an alien MEGASTRUCTURE? 'Bizarre' star could be surrounded by a Dyson sphere built by extraterrestrials, researchers claim