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Raid 1 for backup - Page 2

post #11 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

Sigh! RAID of any kind is not a backup! Read here to see Sean Webster's, OCN's resident drive guru, explanation why RAID is not a backup.

Not sure where your getting raid can't be part of a backup solution. Sean even calls it cool?
post #12 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outaluck View Post

Not sure where your getting raid can't be part of a backup solution. Sean even calls it cool?

The purpose of RAID is to provide redundancy so that in the event of a hardware failure, the system remains up and the data remains available throughout the hardware failure. As there is virtually no scenario where you could need uninterrupted access to the backup set, there is no scenario where you would likely benefit from raiding your backup set.
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post #13 of 46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultisym View Post

I got that he was wanting to rotate a drive out of the RAID mirror periodically as his means of backing up. OP you can do that with RAID 1 and yes the data would be readable on another PC but as someone already mentioned, when you put another drive in the RAID mirror it will want to rebuild it and it takes for ever. If you are going to go to the expense of buying a drive to rotate out of the mirror for backup, why not just buy an external hard drive to use as a backup drive and do your backups periodically that way, it will certainly take more time for the RAID mirror to rebuild than to simply copy files to an external drive. If its because you already have a drive, then simply buy a external kit with no drive for about $20 and set yourself up.

Thanks Altisym, that's good to know I can read the disk outside of the raid environment. The rebuild time is not an issue as its an external raid enclosure.

I currently have my data backed up to an internal drive, a copy on another internal drive and a copy on a external drive but its such a manual process. Using raid 1 mirroring with a 3rd rotating disk would count for 2 backups but my concern was a controller failure leaving all disk unreadable.
post #14 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outaluck View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultisym View Post

I got that he was wanting to rotate a drive out of the RAID mirror periodically as his means of backing up. OP you can do that with RAID 1 and yes the data would be readable on another PC but as someone already mentioned, when you put another drive in the RAID mirror it will want to rebuild it and it takes for ever. If you are going to go to the expense of buying a drive to rotate out of the mirror for backup, why not just buy an external hard drive to use as a backup drive and do your backups periodically that way, it will certainly take more time for the RAID mirror to rebuild than to simply copy files to an external drive. If its because you already have a drive, then simply buy a external kit with no drive for about $20 and set yourself up.

Thanks Altisym, that's good to know I can read the disk outside of the raid environment. The rebuild time is not an issue as its an external raid enclosure.

I currently have my data backed up to an internal drive, a copy on another internal drive and a copy on a external drive but its such a manual process. Using raid 1 mirroring with a 3rd rotating disk would count for 2 backups but my concern was a controller failure leaving all disk unreadable.

RAID-1 is good for that, my main HDDs are in a RAID-6 array (hardware controller), but my backups are on a RAID-1 array (software raid) just for that reason. And as I mentioned, if you use hardware raid, it depends on the controller where and how it stores the array information, which can mean you need a similar controller to read the actual array. Software raid don't have such "problem", since the implementation is the same regardless of the computer/controller (well, the OS must be aware of the software raid, ie. Windows will have trouble reading Linux softraids), so I recommend software raid-1 for your use to avoid problems with different hardware controllers. Of course whatever configuration you end up choosing, test that you are able to actually read the contents on another computer to avoid surprises when something fails.
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post #15 of 46
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Thanks Microx, thats good advice and I will definitely test before relying on it.
post #16 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outaluck View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

Sigh! RAID of any kind is not a backup! Read here to see Sean Webster's, OCN's resident drive guru, explanation why RAID is not a backup.

Not sure where your getting raid can't be part of a backup solution. Sean even calls it cool?

I agree, RAID can be part of a backup solution however, it isn't a solution by itself. If some one uses a RAID 1 to externally backup a RAID 1 inside the computer, that is a backup (though two external backups would be better). The OP isn't clear where the RAID is going to be uses, if it the sole repository of data, etc.
     
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post #17 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce65 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outaluck View Post

Not sure where your getting raid can't be part of a backup solution. Sean even calls it cool?

The purpose of RAID is to provide redundancy so that in the event of a hardware failure, the system remains up and the data remains available throughout the hardware failure. As there is virtually no scenario where you could need uninterrupted access to the backup set, there is no scenario where you would likely benefit from raiding your backup set.

Actually, there are scenarios where RAIDs are justified in a backup set. If you are backing up a RAID inside the computer that is too large to backup to a single drive, a pair of external RAIDs would be necessary to get the volume sizes needed. Because of that difficulty in backing up a RAID, I do not recommend using RAID in a computer unless continuous, uninterrupted operation is essential (or is highly desirable).
     
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post #18 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce65 View Post

As there is virtually no scenario where you could need uninterrupted access to the backup set, there is no scenario where you would likely benefit from raiding your backup set.

Bingo!

Except, there are a few scenarios... but I assume none of those scenarios would ever involve an individual user on their own home computer. And someone who would actually need to follow such practice wouldn't be coming to OCN for advice on how to do it.
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post #19 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outaluck View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultisym View Post

I got that he was wanting to rotate a drive out of the RAID mirror periodically as his means of backing up. OP you can do that with RAID 1 and yes the data would be readable on another PC but as someone already mentioned, when you put another drive in the RAID mirror it will want to rebuild it and it takes for ever. If you are going to go to the expense of buying a drive to rotate out of the mirror for backup, why not just buy an external hard drive to use as a backup drive and do your backups periodically that way, it will certainly take more time for the RAID mirror to rebuild than to simply copy files to an external drive. If its because you already have a drive, then simply buy a external kit with no drive for about $20 and set yourself up.

Thanks Altisym, that's good to know I can read the disk outside of the raid environment. The rebuild time is not an issue as its an external raid enclosure.

I currently have my data backed up to an internal drive, a copy on another internal drive and a copy on a external drive but its such a manual process. Using raid 1 mirroring with a 3rd rotating disk would count for 2 backups but my concern was a controller failure leaving all disk unreadable.
     
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post #20 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

Actually, there are scenarios where RAIDs are justified in a backup set. If you are backing up a RAID inside the computer that is too large to backup to a single drive, a pair of external RAIDs would be necessary to get the volume sizes needed. Because of that difficulty in backing up a RAID, I do not recommend using RAID in a computer unless continuous, uninterrupted operation is essential (or is highly desirable).

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying but I don't believe this is true. If you have a RAID inside your computer and it is too big to fit on one device, almost every backup solution available has the ability to spread the backup across multiple devices. In any case, RAIDing the backup doesn't change anything.

Imagine a scenario, we have a 5TB hard drive or whatever in our computer. For whatever reason we decide we need 24/7 uptime, so we add a second 5TB drive and mirror them. We still only have 5TB of data to backup (and in fact, with data deduplication in place maybe less). So we backup one of the drives, and for simplicity's sake we just do a straight copy. We don't need to mirror our backups together because there is no need for redundancy; the backup isn't going to be online anyway. If for whatever reason we decide we want to be extra safe and keep two copies, that is fine, but we would want those copies to be separate in separate locations and not RAIDed together. There is simply no advantage to raiding them.
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