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Raid 1 for backup - Page 4

post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

RAID is not backup.

It's better than nothing, but it isn't a backup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

Sigh! RAID of any kind is not a backup! Read here to see Sean Webster's, OCN's resident drive guru, explanation why RAID is not a backup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

You interpreted it one way, I interpreted as another.

What is it with people on this form instantly going after people over something, mainly because they are incapable of READING the original post.

The OP stated he is looking to implement raid along with his current regular backups.
If you can't be asked to read an OP, then you are of no use to the thread.

As for an answer for OP.
It heavily depends on how the RAID controller is storing the data. Some store it in a way that is readable by other machines, some don't.
If you use the built in raid function on your motherboard, then it is likely the raid could be setup on any other board with the same or similar SATA controller.

I wouldn't rely on being able to pull a drive out of the array and then read the data straight from another computer, as you will most likely have to setup an array on the new machine to read the data.
Your best option if you want to have a portable copy of your backups, is to setup a pseudo mirror that just duplicates data from the main RAID array over to an external drive. That way you can take the portable drive with you whenever you want, and it is always in sync with whatever is on the main array.
post #32 of 46
You said you didn't want to try to complicate things... but that's kinda all you're doing.

To me it sounds like you're asking for a quick and active backup of redundant drives. Redundant redundancies... Backing up is a slow and time consuming process that even if you can speed it up considerably, it's still going to take a while so there is no real quick active way to produce archived copies on the fly.

Why don't you just get an additional NAS and just schedule your systems to backup to their normal backup drives and then to copy that backup to an additional backup drive in a NAS?

Or as mentioned, just build 2 drive RAID 1 and when you want an archive, pull out a drive, put a new one in and let it rebuild. Or add an external drive, copy to that.

I'm a bit confused on why you would actually need that much redundant data redundancy... I'd understand if you're holding national secrets and need to preserve them for humanity in case of nuclear holocaust... but what you're asking for is kinda impractical but it doesn't really make sense because it's not really necessary and their are better and more efficient (but less redundant) ways you could accomplish this without having to RAID.
Edited by xenophobe - 10/18/15 at 1:55am
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post #33 of 46
Sorry, I'm really buzzed and think by the time I finished reading the thread I overcomplicated everything. lol

A mirrored drive should be recognized and mountable as a normal drive on a different Windows system.

If you're running raid1, you can pull a drive then insert a new one. Hot swap not leave an empty bay for an automatic refill. You don't want to run raid with one configured disk missing, unless that has changed. lol


I think this is what confused me:
Quote:
I'm considering the raid as it offers redundancy as well as simplicity and it could manage backups from multiple computer's.

Simplicity would be a single nas and a regular backup schedule. Really redundant would be schedule to tape.



I couldn't sleep... lol ugh.
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post #34 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce65 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

Not all RAIDs are mirrors (RAID 1). Many people use RAID 5 or 6 (or, maybe, even 10, 50, or 60) in their computers, which means they can easily have volumes larger than a single drive. The only ways to properly back volumes that large is to either use a matching RAID set or split the backup over several smaller drives, the latter being extremely inefficient.

Well the RAID we are talking about specifically in this thread is RAID1. In the event that we were talking about a larger RAID set, there is still no reason to RAID your backup. In the event that you needed to do a complete restore from backup you would rebuild the RAID array from scratch anyway. Example, a basic RAID 10 setup with 4 disks contains only 2 disks worth of data. Backing up two disks worth of data is MORE efficient then backing up 2 disks worth of data, and then backing it up again. I don't see how you can argue that splitting your backup over two drives is more inefficient then RAIDing the exact same data across 4 drives.

The pitfalls of using RAID 1 to backup data applies to all other RAIDs as well (other than RAID 0 although it has its own pitfalls).

Splitting the backup of a large volume, such as a large array, over multiple disks is much more labor intensive since you have to connect, update, the disconnect each backup drive separately. You also have to consciously maintain the data in the source volume in such a way that keeps each block of data to be backed up segregated into sub-volumes no larger than the disks being used to back them up. Both also lead to the increase probability of human error causing the loss of error.
     
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post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrasherht View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

RAID is not backup.

It's better than nothing, but it isn't a backup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

Sigh! RAID of any kind is not a backup! Read here to see Sean Webster's, OCN's resident drive guru, explanation why RAID is not a backup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

You interpreted it one way, I interpreted as another.

What is it with people on this form instantly going after people over something, mainly because they are incapable of READING the original post.

The OP stated he is looking to implement raid along with his current regular backups.
If you can't be asked to read an OP, then you are of no use to the thread.

As for an answer for OP.
It heavily depends on how the RAID controller is storing the data. Some store it in a way that is readable by other machines, some don't.
If you use the built in raid function on your motherboard, then it is likely the raid could be setup on any other board with the same or similar SATA controller.

I wouldn't rely on being able to pull a drive out of the array and then read the data straight from another computer, as you will most likely have to setup an array on the new machine to read the data.
Your best option if you want to have a portable copy of your backups, is to setup a pseudo mirror that just duplicates data from the main RAID array over to an external drive. That way you can take the portable drive with you whenever you want, and it is always in sync with whatever is on the main array.

What is it with people who can't read the other posts and comprehend what has been said in them. The point is, it is a bad idea to use RAID of any kind in any way to make a backup. The method the OP wants to use depends on using RAID 1 to continuously automatically duplicate data to another drive can lead to data loss or corruption due to human error or malware. If the OP accidentally deletes a file, the file will be instantly deleted on the mirrored drive. If the data in the drive getting mirrored gets corrupted, the data on the mirror will also be corrupted. The solution you are proposing in your last paragraph is almost exactly what I've been saying all along for the same reasons so you need to get off your high horse and pay attention to what people are actually saying, not what your preconceived notion of what they are saying is.
     
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post #36 of 46
As i mentioned, you can break the mirror up and put a new drive in the RAID 1 and rebuild the RAID 1 But you really are making it more difficult than it needs to be. Especially since you still have to buy a drive, the best way to do your backup would be buying the appropriate size drive and an external drive kit on the cheap. If you want to spend more money, the nas clouds arent to expensive and they are fun. You can stream your music and movies to you wherever you are and on whatever device.

Something like this will work.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5722492&csid=_61

Or this

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8567754&CatId=2778

Or a nas cloud

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8898908&CatId=9692
Edited by Ultisym - 10/18/15 at 5:59am
   
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post #37 of 46
Raid for sure isn't a backup. It's designed for fault tolerance. That mean depending on how and what raid your using, you can lose a pretty determined amount of drives before the data in the array is lost. The best backup solution is the 321 rule.

Have at least three copies of your data.
Store the copies on two different media.
Keep one backup copy offsite.

In my case, I have the following:

Files being backed up to anow external drives in rotation with 30 days retention and 30 days revision.
Same files backed to to a NAS running Raid 5
Same files backed up to Google drive and copy drive.
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post #38 of 46
^ that's more of the answer I expected in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultisym View Post

As i mentioned, you can break the mirror up and put a new drive in the RAID 1 and rebuild the RAID 1 But you really are making it more difficult than it needs to be. Especially since you still have to buy a drive, the best way to do your backup would be buying the appropriate size drive and an external drive kit on the cheap. If you want to spend more money, the nas clouds arent to expensive and they are fun. You can stream your music and movies to you wherever you are and on whatever device.

Something like this will work.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5722492&csid=_61

Or a nas cloud

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8898908&CatId=9692

+10000

I consider both of these a necessity, IMO. An external dock for internal drives is awesome, especially if you have a stack of hard drives and you use them as offline cold storage. And a NAS.... I have a cheap 2 drive Netgear I'm going to be setting up as a low power DLNA media server and for backups.
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post #39 of 46
I have 3.5" dock and a 2.5" dock built into my computer. I use WD Greens for my backups. I plug in a drive only when updating the backup. I keep one set of backup drives at home and another, identical set in my safe deposit box at my credit union; those get swapped out with the onsite backups no less than once a month. I also have a Carbonite.com account to cover data that gets changed or added since I put the offsite backups in my safe deposit box. I can also access that data remotely when I'm away from home.
     
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post #40 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post

Or as mentioned, just build 2 drive RAID 1 and when you want an archive, pull out a drive, put a new one in and let it rebuild.

This is exactly what I'm looking to do. It doesn't mater how long it takes for the raid to rebuild, i don't need to be there
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