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[WCCF] AMD’s Arctic Islands lineup will offer at least "2x the performance per watt" of Fiji - Page 4

post #31 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

Aside from the 50% FPS gap due to dx11 driver efficiency in several popular games

50% is an exaggeration it's always been 2-10%. Some popular games favored AMD for performance giving it a technical advantage 2-10% better as well. As it stands there really is no reason to upgrade or swap camps unless there is something ground breaking between either two.

When you of course overclock NVidia gpus 900 series as of late they've obtained close to 30% boost over AMD, and with an overclocked AMD 15-20% lead for NVidia. Overclocking is dangerous for hardware is unlikely to be done on the consumer level unless preclocked.

Apples for Apples, Stock for Stock they evenly trade blows. It's hardly possible to put anything on par with the R9 Nano as far as consumption, size and performance is concerned.
Edited by SpeedyVT - 10/20/15 at 3:34am
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post #32 of 102
This was already known since the analyst day so where is the news?

WCCF's clueless reporting about the die size and then number of transistors is quite stunning. We all know perfectly well or should know perfectly well that GF's 14nm node has a much higher density according to their presentation of the node 4 times as high over their 28nm nodes is doable.

therefore it makes sense that a 15 billion transistor product is no bigger than 300 mm^2
Edited by maarten12100 - 10/20/15 at 3:49am
post #33 of 102
Quote:
Hah. Maybe, in rare occurrence, due to a driver deficiency. And I'll have you know, those occur just as frequently on both sides of the fence.

They don't really and it's not a rare occurance. AMD's dx11 driver is known to take a lot more CPU resources when running the same game in some situations; a fraction of games that are CPU-limited (all the time or just some of the time) are hit badly. Usually ~1.5x faster on Nvidia. WoW is one of them but the effect is very widespread.

That gap used to be much smaller - it was like 10-20% in favor of Nvidia. A year and a half ago (april 2014) it became ~1.5x. Both sides have improved slightly since then, but it's still roughly 1.5x in favor of Nvidia.

This was easily seen in benchmarks such as Battlefield and Star Swarm where Mantle started off crushing Nvidia's DX11 performance and then Nvidia's dx11 performance became much better to match it.

Meanwhile if you look at AMD's dx11 performance, they have 1.5x less FPS than Mantle and Nvidia results.

All of those games with only dx11 that are affected, AMD gets 1.5x less FPS forever while CPU bound.

They do not take driver performance seriously at all, have not fixed it in 1.5 years and may never fix it.

86444eea_http--www.gamegpu.ru-images-stories-Test_GPU-Action-Plants_vs._Zombies_Garden_Warfare-test-PVZ_proz_radeon.jpeg

ed47445d_http--www.gamegpu.ru-images-stories-Test_GPU-Action-Plants_vs._Zombies_Garden_Warfare-test-PVZ_proz_nv.jpeg

We've had plenty of discussion about it on OCN, hundreds of pages. It's a thing. It affects a ton of games, though some more than others. It's BS.

http://imgur.com/a/EFKZY

Look at the DX11 MT draw calls. 2.5x higher on Nvidia. Nvidia also shows scaling onto more CPU cores (which is shown in actual games, too). On that test, Nvidia gets significant scaling to 6 cores and a little scaling to 8. AMD gets no scaling past 2 - Huge driver performance deficiency for AMD.

I can tell this is the first you have heard of the issue so please, look into it more. There's plenty of info out there - it's a really silly reason for somebody who plays one of the affected games a lot and cares about its performance to be forced to buy a GPU from one side.
You can play a ton of games and maybe Nvidia wins some, AMD wins others - but in this case, GPU's from neither side are loaded a lot and it just comes down to drivers. One companies GPU will have you dip to 40fps while the other stays at 60-65 and no amount of throwing money at the problem will fix it because you're limited by the combination of CPU singlethreaded performance and the amount of singlethreaded load that the driver places on your CPU.

It's just silly. I'd love for the issue to be gone as i could actually choose a GPU from more than one brand at that point - we're in a duopoly at the moment with one side failing to compete in some niches which creates a practical monopoly there. There is no choice for GPU to buy or recommend for people playing these specific games - other than if you want it to be a 960 or a 970.
Edited by Cyro999 - 10/20/15 at 4:11am
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post #34 of 102
@Cyro999

And AMD dont want to fix it, they tell u to dump ur DX11 game, buy new DX12 game instead.....

I say we dump their GPU let them went under for their stupidity.
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post #35 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocknut View Post

@Cyro999

And AMD dont want to fix it, they tell u to dump ur DX11 game, buy new DX12 game instead.....

I say we dump their GPU let them went under for their stupidity.
I see that you are enjoying your new gpu.smile.gif
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post #36 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocknut View Post

@Cyro999

And AMD dont want to fix it, they tell u to dump ur DX11 game, buy new DX12 game instead.....

I say we dump their GPU let them went under for their stupidity.

Of both evil's (AMD & Nvidia), AMD is by far the lesser evil. Everybody seems to be forgetting that AMD is still improving performance for their previous gen cards (290X beats a 780 Ti now). Nvidia on the other hand...
 
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post #37 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

Overclocking is dangerous for hardware.
Uh huh... Can't even fry a CPU or a GPU, nowadays, with all the thermal protection mechanisms in place. You're on OCN. Overclocking capability IS a measurement of worth of hardware.
    
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post #38 of 102
Quote:
Of both evil's (AMD & Nvidia), AMD is by far the lesser evil. Everybody seems to be forgetting that AMD is still improving performance for their previous gen cards (290X beats a 780 Ti now). Nvidia on the other hand...

They both do stupid stuff constantly but AMD's stupid stuff affects me much more directly at the moment so my last purchase was Nvidia and my next one may be, too. I also have no choice but to recommend Nvidia to a bunch of people in the niches that AMD fails at
Quote:
Overclocking is dangerous for hardware.

Sure, but technically buying hardware and not undervolting it is damaging/dangerous for the hardware. Intel ships all of their 6700k's at 0.25v higher stock volts than last gen (4770k's) - so what's the correct move? Was Intel wrong then or are they wrong now - or does that not apply because voltage vs lifespan is not so easily defined, so both approaches work fine?
Edited by Cyro999 - 10/20/15 at 5:05am
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post #39 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post

Uh huh... Can't even fry a CPU or a GPU, nowadays, with all the thermal protection mechanisms in place. You're on OCN. Overclocking capability IS a measurement of worth of hardware.
It is obvious how that oversight is a prerequisite for hardware failures on the horizon. Overclocking is just novelty factor.
And for reference: my gpu doesn't overclock, but it undervolts. It is a design peculiarity of msi hawk hd6870.
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post #40 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

They don't really and it's not a rare occurance. AMD's dx11 driver is known to take a lot more CPU resources when running the same game in some situations; a fraction of games that are CPU-limited (all the time or just some of the time) are hit badly. Usually ~1.5x faster on Nvidia. WoW is one of them but the effect is very widespread.

That gap used to be much smaller - it was like 10-20% in favor of Nvidia. A year and a half ago (april 2014) it became ~1.5x. Both sides have improved slightly since then, but it's still roughly 1.5x in favor of Nvidia.

This was easily seen in benchmarks such as Battlefield and Star Swarm where Mantle started off crushing Nvidia's DX11 performance and then Nvidia's dx11 performance became much better to match it.

Meanwhile if you look at AMD's dx11 performance, they have 1.5x less FPS than Mantle and Nvidia results.

All of those games with only dx11 that are affected, AMD gets 1.5x less FPS forever while CPU bound.

They do not take driver performance seriously at all, have not fixed it in 1.5 years and may never fix it.

86444eea_http--www.gamegpu.ru-images-stories-Test_GPU-Action-Plants_vs._Zombies_Garden_Warfare-test-PVZ_proz_radeon.jpeg

ed47445d_http--www.gamegpu.ru-images-stories-Test_GPU-Action-Plants_vs._Zombies_Garden_Warfare-test-PVZ_proz_nv.jpeg

We've had plenty of discussion about it on OCN, hundreds of pages. It's a thing. It affects a ton of games, though some more than others. It's BS.

http://imgur.com/a/EFKZY

Look at the DX11 MT draw calls. 2.5x higher on Nvidia. Nvidia also shows scaling onto more CPU cores (which is shown in actual games, too). On that test, Nvidia gets significant scaling to 6 cores and a little scaling to 8. AMD gets no scaling past 2 - Huge driver performance deficiency for AMD.

I can tell this is the first you have heard of the issue so please, look into it more. There's plenty of info out there - it's a really silly reason for somebody who plays one of the affected games a lot and cares about its performance to be forced to buy a GPU from one side.
You can play a ton of games and maybe Nvidia wins some, AMD wins others - but in this case, GPU's from neither side are loaded a lot and it just comes down to drivers. One companies GPU will have you dip to 40fps while the other stays at 60-65 and no amount of throwing money at the problem will fix it because you're limited by the combination of CPU singlethreaded performance and the amount of singlethreaded load that the driver places on your CPU.

It's just silly. I'd love for the issue to be gone as i could actually choose a GPU from more than one brand at that point - we're in a duopoly at the moment with one side failing to compete in some niches which creates a practical monopoly there. There is no choice for GPU to buy or recommend for people playing these specific games - other than if you want it to be a 960 or a 970.
Yes there is a cpu perf deficit with AMD cards or rather the AMD drivers. On a side note you are cherry picking a Mantle title running under dx11, right?
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