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[WCCF] AMD’s Arctic Islands lineup will offer at least "2x the performance per watt" of Fiji - Page 7

post #61 of 102
what bothers me the most, is how did HD7850 even manage to penetrate into R7-370 and still kept a $149 price tag, for 2generations straight.
why does it even still exists if bonnaire XT could replace it while being dramatically cheaper?
Edited by epic1337 - 10/20/15 at 12:12pm
post #62 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

what bothers me the most, is how did HD7850 even manage to penetrate into R7-370 and still kept a $149 price tag, for 2generations straight.
why does it even still exists if bonnaire XT could replace it while being dramatically cheaper?
Is there no difference between each generation like lower leakage reducing power use?
post #63 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by skruppe View Post

Is there no difference between each generation like lower leakage reducing power use?

it actually consumes more power due to clock tweaks.
the performance improvement is also barely noticeable.
and even if it were to be slightly more efficient, its probably firmware updates on powertune.

i'd rather they binned Tonga further and fit it at R7-370 for the same price, at least Tonga is GCN 1.2.
Edited by epic1337 - 10/20/15 at 12:26pm
post #64 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by skruppe View Post

Is there no difference between each generation like lower leakage reducing power use?
Barely any difference so he really does have a point.
post #65 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

it actually consumes more power due to clock tweaks.
the performance improvement is also barely noticeable.

and even if it were to be slightly more efficient, its probably firmware updates on powertune.
Even the same design can be made more efficient, firmware updates is probably more relevant though.
post #66 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by skruppe View Post

Even the same design can be made more efficient, firmware updates is probably more relevant though.

probably, if it wasn't such an old card.

its a GCN 1.0, first generation GCN... *face x desk*
it hardly supports any of the new features, and "R7-370" is far from being low-end.
post #67 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

They don't really and it's not a rare occurance. AMD's dx11 driver is known to take a lot more CPU resources when running the same game in some situations; a fraction of games that are CPU-limited (all the time or just some of the time) are hit badly. Usually ~1.5x faster on Nvidia. WoW is one of them but the effect is very widespread.

That gap used to be much smaller - it was like 10-20% in favor of Nvidia. A year and a half ago (april 2014) it became ~1.5x. Both sides have improved slightly since then, but it's still roughly 1.5x in favor of Nvidia.

This was easily seen in benchmarks such as Battlefield and Star Swarm where Mantle started off crushing Nvidia's DX11 performance and then Nvidia's dx11 performance became much better to match it.

Meanwhile if you look at AMD's dx11 performance, they have 1.5x less FPS than Mantle and Nvidia results.

All of those games with only dx11 that are affected, AMD gets 1.5x less FPS forever while CPU bound.

They do not take driver performance seriously at all, have not fixed it in 1.5 years and may never fix it.

86444eea_http--www.gamegpu.ru-images-stories-Test_GPU-Action-Plants_vs._Zombies_Garden_Warfare-test-PVZ_proz_radeon.jpeg

ed47445d_http--www.gamegpu.ru-images-stories-Test_GPU-Action-Plants_vs._Zombies_Garden_Warfare-test-PVZ_proz_nv.jpeg

We've had plenty of discussion about it on OCN, hundreds of pages. It's a thing. It affects a ton of games, though some more than others. It's BS.

http://imgur.com/a/EFKZY

Look at the DX11 MT draw calls. 2.5x higher on Nvidia. Nvidia also shows scaling onto more CPU cores (which is shown in actual games, too). On that test, Nvidia gets significant scaling to 6 cores and a little scaling to 8. AMD gets no scaling past 2 - Huge driver performance deficiency for AMD.

I can tell this is the first you have heard of the issue so please, look into it more. There's plenty of info out there - it's a really silly reason for somebody who plays one of the affected games a lot and cares about its performance to be forced to buy a GPU from one side.
You can play a ton of games and maybe Nvidia wins some, AMD wins others - but in this case, GPU's from neither side are loaded a lot and it just comes down to drivers. One companies GPU will have you dip to 40fps while the other stays at 60-65 and no amount of throwing money at the problem will fix it because you're limited by the combination of CPU singlethreaded performance and the amount of singlethreaded load that the driver places on your CPU.

It's just silly. I'd love for the issue to be gone as i could actually choose a GPU from more than one brand at that point - we're in a duopoly at the moment with one side failing to compete in some niches which creates a practical monopoly there. There is no choice for GPU to buy or recommend for people playing these specific games - other than if you want it to be a 960 or a 970.

Does NV perform 50% faster when you're running an i3 with a flagship dual GPU card? It could probably perform 100% faster. Who cares, you're running a 295X with an i3 at 100+ FPS. Go home.

100+ minimum frames from an i3-2100 and up. 70+ minimums from the weakest processor they tested while matched with one of the fastest dual chip cards available.

Yes, I'd say it's a rare occurrence to see nV performing over 50% faster when comparing same-tier cards. This is extreme cherry picking for the purpose of making a huge generalization. To flatly say that NV performs 50% faster than AMD on DX11 is just absurd.



AMD has never won against nV when the frame rates are absurdly high. Why people concern themselves with this is beyond me. I remember seeing the trend as far back as 2005 with the 1950XTX. AMD looks horrible in games where both cards are pushing frames hand over fist, but then as the settings are raised the numbers become more relevant and AMD pulls ahead, often being the better performer.

In the last decade of owning AMD cards, I've not once encountered a situation where my GPU grunt outweighed my CPU grunt so heavily that it had a realistic impact on my performance. But, then again, I've never tried to run an i3 with dual 290's. I'd never want to.
Edited by Mookster - 10/20/15 at 3:24pm
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post #68 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

probably, if it wasn't such an old card.

its a GCN 1.0, first generation GCN... *face x desk*
it hardly supports any of the new features, and "R7-370" is far from being low-end.

AMD followed Nvidia in their product stack shift. 370 is the current equivalent of the old 7750 or 260 which were $110 on launch.

But yes the 7850 makes for a shameful 370 especially at $150 launch price. I bought a 7850 for 10 bucks more than that a little less than 3 years ago.
post #69 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snyderman34 View Post

I'm wondering if it makes it a good thing I skipped Fiji. More important, how does this shape up against Pascal?

The rainbow unicorn goes to battle against the golden gryphon... who wins? lol
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post #70 of 102
AMD need something big to get them out the hole they dug for themselves..

Nvidia know that too, hopefully that means both will put out the best they can do at competitive prices. thumb.gif

The rumors have gone from the next-gen GPU's being released late 2016, without a huge performance increase, to anywhere between Q1 and Q3 2016 and being absolute monsters. biggrin.gif

Man, this could actually turn out to be a bit of a special time for GPU's.
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