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[BL] Intel Kaby Lake schedule revealed, 10nm Cannonlake will push back to 2018 - Page 6

post #51 of 87
Hugging my 2500k. This lack of competition and stifling of CPU advancements is fine with me; I won't be spending money on Intel hardware for yet another 2-3 years.
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post #52 of 87
Quote:
From the temps Skylake gets delidded, I'd say screw the 10nm for 4 cores for now

What temps, exactly? You mean super good, or bad (a lot of people seem to think that they're bad as they are not soldered)

A message for people in general who think so or are not entirely up to date

Skylake is around 60c with load that takes 4770k's to 90c, both undelidded. I actually wrote this earlier, totally unscientific but approximate numbers:
Quote:
Haswell: 95c
DC: 85c
Delidded Haswell/DC: 70c
Skylake: 70c
Delidded Skylake: 60c

We've actually had a temperature drop every die shrink since i started following tech, but the Ivy bridge desktop TIM situation was really messed up.

From 32nm to 22nm: If you compare Sandy to delidded ivy, the ivy had better temps. If you compare Sandy-E to Ivy-E, the Ivy-E had better temps (both were soldered). Laptop was also an advancement.

From 22nm to 14nm: Obvious improvement. Switched CPU out, undelidded to undelidded and temps are down 25c. Even vs Devil's Canyon which had improved package, temperatures are obviously lower

The 4770k was the peak of bad stuff happening - the TIM situation wasn't fixed at all, power consumption maybe even rose a bit at load vs Ivy Bridge (as it was faster, but not die shrunk) and then some of the existing heat was moved from the motherboard to the die because of the IVR. Now we have a die shrink, IVR gone again and TIM improved, things seem to be great. Not perfect, but great.
Edited by Cyro999 - 10/21/15 at 6:02pm
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post #53 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

Quote:
From the temps Skylake gets delidded, I'd say screw the 10nm for 4 cores for now

What temps, exactly? You mean super good, or bad (a lot of people seem to think that they're bad as they are not soldered)

A message for people in general who think so or are not entirely up to date

Skylake is around 60c with load that takes 4770k's to 90c, both undelidded. I actually wrote this earlier, totally unscientific but approximate numbers:
Quote:
Haswell: 95c
DC: 85c
Delidded Haswell/DC: 70c
Skylake: 70c
Delidded Skylake: 60c

We've actually had a temperature drop every die shrink since i started following tech, but the Ivy bridge desktop TIM situation was really messed up.

From 32nm to 22nm: If you compare Sandy to delidded ivy, the ivy had better temps. If you compare Sandy-E to Ivy-E, the Ivy-E had better temps (both were soldered). Laptop was also an advancement.

From 22nm to 14nm: Obvious improvement. Switched CPU out, undelidded to undelidded and temps are down 25c. Even vs Devil's Canyon which had improved package, temperatures are obviously lower

The 4770k was the peak of bad stuff happening - the TIM situation wasn't fixed at all, power consumption maybe even rose a bit at load vs Ivy Bridge (as it was faster, but not die shrunk) and then some of the existing heat was moved from the motherboard to the die because of the IVR. Now we have a die shrink, IVR gone again and TIM improved, things seem to be great. Not perfect, but great.

Wait a second, so if I delid a 4670k or 4770k that makes them an extremely viable choice for my Z97 PRO correct? For what I want they are essentially the same, the only major advantage being the extra capacitors that smooth voltage delivery from the FIVR. On average this will increase the max overclock and reduce required voltage.

HOWEVER, in this review they get the Haswell chips to 4.6GHz and the 4790K specifically to 4.7GHz. Usually the i7 clocks (100MHz?) more than the i5. Correct? Is it possible that after deliding, there is little to no advantage in spending more to get a 4690k because it won't overclock any better than a 4670k?! If that's not the case, how much more is the 4690k REALLY worth over the 4670k? $15? $30? (used)
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8227/devils-canyon-review-intel-core-i7-4790k-and-i5-4690k/2
Edited by cookieboyeli - 10/21/15 at 8:02pm
post #54 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieboyeli View Post

Wait a second, so if I delid a 4670k or 4770k that makes them an extremely viable choice for my Z97 PRO correct? For what I want they are essentially the same, the only major advantage being the extra capacitors that smooth voltage delivery from the FIVR. On average this will increase the max overclock and reduce required voltage.

HOWEVER, in this review they get the Haswell chips to 4.6GHz and the 4790K specifically to 4.7GHz. Usually the i7 clocks (100MHz?) more than the i5. Correct? Is it possible that after deliding, there is little to no advantage in spending more to get a 4690k because it won't overclock any better than a 4670k?! If that's not the case, how much more is the 4690k REALLY worth over the 4670k? $15? $30? (used)
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8227/devils-canyon-review-intel-core-i7-4790k-and-i5-4690k/2

The 4690k's are better binned, slightly higher OC and less awful chips. For actual performance, the cost difference is very little.. but i (and a lot of others) are pretty nuts about that last 5% sometimes wink.gif It's just not as satisfying to be stuck with mediocre overclocks because of hardware limitations - though given your performance is going to be bad compared to Skylake either way, it doesn't matter as much now.
Quote:
Is it possible that after deliding, there is little to no advantage in spending more to get a 4690k because it won't overclock any better than a 4670k?!

It's very possible that you'd get a higher OC and same temps on 4670k if delidding. It's more likely to get at least a slightly better OC on the 4690k, though. If you're delidding, the difference between them should be worth less. If you know the OC potential of that particular chip already and you're delidding, then you shouldn't really pay more.

i5 and i7 average OC is quite close. We have a ton of data here anyway: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JfvjG0xKvQxUY4z7CNr_pCMhzH0Y3YaiYLWWJJY9Opw/edit#gid=0
Edited by Cyro999 - 10/21/15 at 8:50pm
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post #55 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNMock View Post

What? That's not exactly a comfortable ambient temp to live in. Are you an eskimo or something?

Whats so wrong about it? I cant imagine living in anywhere where it goes more than 18C. (Okay, maybe 20C in winter when theres -25C outside) I freaking hate living in hot places. At least this way both me and my PC are cool tongue.gif
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post #56 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadRabbit View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DNMock View Post

What? That's not exactly a comfortable ambient temp to live in. Are you an eskimo or something?

Whats so wrong about it? I cant imagine living in anywhere where it goes more than 18C. (Okay, maybe 20C in winter when theres -25C outside) I freaking hate living in hot places. At least this way both me and my PC are cool tongue.gif

lachen.gif Stay the hell away from South Florida, or any part of Florida really. It's 22C (71F) here right now, and that's considered a pretty cool night. It gets to around 36C (97F) in July.
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post #57 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post

lachen.gif Stay the hell away from South Florida, or any part of Florida really. It's 22C (71F) here right now, and that's considered a pretty cool night. It gets to around 36C (97F) in July.

Hell no. I would rather move to Antarctica.
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post #58 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

The 4690k's are better binned, slightly higher OC and less awful chips. For actual performance, the cost difference is very little.. but i (and a lot of others) are pretty nuts about that last 5% sometimes wink.gif It's just not as satisfying to be stuck with mediocre overclocks because of hardware limitations - though given your performance is going to be bad compared to Skylake either way, it doesn't matter as much now.
It's very possible that you'd get a higher OC and same temps on 4670k if delidding. It's more likely to get at least a slightly better OC on the 4690k, though. If you're delidding, the difference between them should be worth less. If you know the OC potential of that particular chip already and you're delidding, then you shouldn't really pay more.

i5 and i7 average OC is quite close. We have a ton of data here anyway: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JfvjG0xKvQxUY4z7CNr_pCMhzH0Y3YaiYLWWJJY9Opw/edit#gid=0

IIRC on water an average 4790K will clock to 4.9 to 5.0 without much trouble.

Ask the guys over at http://siliconlottery.com/ they got a rep around here somewhere. Bet they can tell you exactly what the average difference between those two chips are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post

lachen.gif Stay the hell away from South Florida, or any part of Florida really. It's 22C (71F) here right now, and that's considered a pretty cool night. It gets to around 36C (97F) in July.

Same here in Texas. Finally got a cold front to come through and dropped the highs down to the 80's instead of upper 90's last week. Hitting 100* F in October is just plain stupid.
Edited by DNMock - 10/21/15 at 9:15pm
post #59 of 87
Quote:
IIRC on water an average 4790K will clock to 4.9 to 5.0 without much trouble.

Average 4790k needs over 1.4v for 4.8ghz - it's not about the temperatures. Siliconlottery sells binned chips at pretty high volts - and that's the entire point of the service. They run highish volts, buy a bunch of CPU's and sell you one that's better than 90% of the chips out there at a healthy price premium.
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post #60 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieboyeli View Post


Where are YOU living?? Ariz...oh...

Why is there even a state there? I mean who did that? Couldn't we just have made it "No mans land" or something? Just put "there be dragons" so no idiots settle in the winter thinking it's summer, then get baked alive 3 months later when "spring" hits. (aka summer part 1 of 3.) It's just a bad idea.

:lachen:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ku4eto View Post

Dunno hpw can you say that a Skylake runs cooler than previous gens, when the used TIM was plain horrible. A simple delid and changing it was giving 10C + better temps.

Because that's how math works?

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