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[M] Europe and Russia to colonize dark side of the Moon with joint space base - Page 4

post #31 of 103
Haven't Northern Koreans been there already ? Old news.
post #32 of 103
People have been dying of famine before we went to space and will continue to after we're on another planet.

Meanwhile, this is the coolest feasible news about space exploration I've heard in years.

I'm not sure what all the super smarts are thinking, but It would seem to me that learning how to live on another celestial body that isn't earth for even a limited time would help massively in the research needed to on something further away, like mars.
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post #33 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by KYKYLLIKA View Post

Which part is the violation? The last time I read the treaty it was about peaceful exploration and the only prohibition was that of placing weapons of mass destruction on orbit, in outer space and on celestial objects. So far as I can tell, a bubble with an airlock does not fit the description “weapon of mass destruction”.
Article 2.
post #34 of 103
America gave up on the moon. We are going to mars.
post #35 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chakravant View Post

Article 2.

Article 2 just says nobody can claim things in space for a nation. Like, europe or russia can't claim the moon as part of their nations by putting an outpost there. But that doesn't mean they can't put a base there I wouldn't think. The eventual mars mission will work the same way, some nation can build a base there for exploration and research, but they can't use that base as justification for claiming parts of mars for their nation.

Quote:
Article II

Outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty_of_1967
post #36 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

So I guess the UN would object to a country flying a couple of nukes out to an asteroid that was going to wipe out all of mankind unless a team of astronauts flew out, drilled a hole, put the nuke in it, and blew it up? biggrin.gif

Proof that the United Nations hates people.

Actually, Hollywood aside, that wouldn't necessarily help; the asteroid fragments would still have roughly the same velocity, and would still hit the earth. In fact it may even do more damage as it would be spread over a wider area. Shining giant "lasers" on the asteroid might work though.

Edit: The NASA report into redirecting Near Earth Objects also mentions:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NASA 
It should be noted that becauseof restrictions found in Article IV of the Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies, use of a nuclear device would likely require prior international coordination.

/Edit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

But seriously, how can this be about Russians on the dark side of the moon?
The picture CLEARLY shows the Russians standing in on the moon with the Earth in clear view. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
a2313a0c_5623cf97c46188ea548b45a9.jpeg

I know you were being facetious, but I looked around anyway - the image comes from an architectural company, Foster and Partners, who work with the ESA to explore the possibility of 3D printing a moon base. Obviously concept art from an architectural firm is not necessarily going to be astronomically accurate - it also may not be specific to this project. There are a few more details and pictures on their website:

http://www.fosterandpartners.com/projects/lunar-habitation/

Also - remember this is a joint European / Russian venture.
Edited by GingerJohn - 10/21/15 at 2:06pm
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post #37 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laysson View Post

People dying of famine on Earth, yeah let's colonize the Moon, so good.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_relative_privation redface.gif

We can't go because NASA's parents stopped giving them lunch money. We're out of the race.
post #38 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyMcFlych View Post

Article 2 just says nobody can claim things in space for a nation. Like, europe or russia can't claim the moon as part of their nations by putting an outpost there. But that doesn't mean they can't put a base there I wouldn't think. The eventual mars mission will work the same way, some nation can build a base there for exploration and research, but they can't use that base as justification for claiming parts of mars for their nation.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty_of_1967
How is this not the very definition of national appropriation by occupation? Is the access to the station going to be free for all who care to visit?
post #39 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chakravant View Post

How is this not the very definition of national appropriation by occupation? Is the access to the station going to be free for all who care to visit?

The same way research stations on Antarctica don't give the nations who build them a claim to the land, research stations on the moon or mars won't count as claiming the land there either. There has to be some sort of temporary ownership of the immediate area around a building that everyone agrees to for things like this to work, but it doesn't mean a nation owns the moon just by building something on it.

Going by your logic satellites are breaking the treaty by claiming their orbits for their nation of origins. Nobody would be allowed in space because any space exploration would be breaking the treaty. Obviously the various nations all get along somehow in order to put satellites in orbit. Those satellites have to have exclusive access to their individual orbits in order to function safely. But no nation can claim to own a specific orbit around our planet.
post #40 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyMcFlych View Post

The same way research stations on Antarctica don't give the nations who build them a claim to the land, research stations on the moon or mars won't count as claiming the land there either. There has to be some sort of temporary ownership of the immediate area around a building that everyone agrees to for things like this to work, but it doesn't mean a nation owns the moon just by building something on it.

Going by your logic satellites are breaking the treaty by claiming their orbits for their nation of origins. Nobody would be allowed in space because any space exploration would be breaking the treaty. Obviously the various nations all get along somehow in order to put satellites in orbit. Those satellites have to have exclusive access to their individual orbits in order to function safely. But no nation can claim to own a specific orbit around our planet.
There are significant differences between the Outer Space Treaty and the Antarctic Treaty System, including governing bodies and much tighter wording.

The orbital "logic" is yours, not mine. By my logic any other satellite is free to use that orbit as long as they do not do so in the same physical space as the first satellite. There is no real restricted territory involved. A static base on a moon or planet is a very different legal entity.
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [M] Europe and Russia to colonize dark side of the Moon with joint space base