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post #21 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

3-5c is best case scenario. Worst case is 15-20c.

My own experience shows this to be false. The difference in CPU temp with my GPU in the system under load and not underload only deviates about 2C. The issue on this is a lot of misconceptions on what heat going into the case actually does and how case air flow really works.
post #22 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopar63 View Post

My own experience shows this to be false. The difference in CPU temp with my GPU in the system under load and not underload only deviates about 2C. The issue on this is a lot of misconceptions on what heat going into the case actually does and how case air flow really works.
I have no idea what your "experience" is, but I (and others) have monitored room temperature, CPU and GPU cooler intake air temperatures, and CPU and GPU temperatures. The cooler intake air temps can easily deviate 2c, generally way more than 2c between idle and load. Often simply changing case fan speed (or cooler fan speed) changes the cooler intake air temp. This is especially true of of multiple fan GPU coolers and down-flow CPU coolers.

If you would like to discuss this, it would be great, but if your mind is make up I won't confuse you with facts. biggrin.gif
Edited by doyll - 10/26/15 at 1:25pm
post #23 of 109
My experience is about 20+ different builds in the last year and compairing the actual CPU core temps with and without a video card under load in the system while a CPU was under full load as well as comparing the systems internal air temps during load with the GPU under and not under load. My epxerience also is from understanding the laws of thermal dynamics and knowing what the actual changes are that occur based on the math as well as real world observation. But hey if facts get in your way...rolleyes.gif
post #24 of 109
So you are saying that in 20+ builds a GPU similar to 980 Windforce will have case air temps of 2c or less different at idle than when running at full load?

But let us back up here a bit.
You are talking about CPU temp, not case air temp going into CPU cooler.
You originally said:
]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopar63 View Post

You know the impact of this is negligible in any case with decent air flow right? The actual heat up is only around 3c to 5C in the worse case scenarios.

To which I replied:
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

3-5c is best case scenario. Worst case is 15-20c.
ciarlatano ran some tests in his system and even as well setup as it was the CPU intake air temp was 6.8-8.8c warmer than room when running CPU cooler tests .. and most of the CPU coolers were CLC exhausting out of case! devil.gif


Depending on case and fan configuration t can be a nightmare of epic proportions. With modern 350w TDP GPUs .. and even worse if going SLI. With two of these beasts it is even harder to supply them (and CPU cooler) with uncontaminated cool air.

It can require dividing the case between CPU and GPU. With SLI it can require more spacing between GPU and/or ducting cool air to top GPU

But with a well designed case and good fans it's not too much of a problem. tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopar63 View Post

You know the impact of this is negligible in any case with decent air flow right? The actual heat up is only around 3c to 5C in the worse case scenarios.

And you replied:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopar63 View Post

My own experience shows this to be false. The difference in CPU temp with my GPU in the system under load and not underload only deviates about 2C. The issue on this is a lot of misconceptions on what heat going into the case actually does and how case air flow really works.
I never said the anything about what CPU temp change is with and without GPU under heavy load.
That is not the same as case air or cooler intake air temperature.

I have built and tested airflow a lot .. years and years of it.
I have helped others solve their system cooling problems.
The temperature changes from idle to full load as well as before and after optimizing case airflow are substantially better than 2-3c improvement.
Edited by doyll - 10/26/15 at 5:15pm
post #25 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopar63 View Post

You know the impact of this is negligible in any case with decent air flow right? The actual heat up is only around 3c to 5C in the worse case scenarios.

Well ya, and thats the Define S, bad rear airflow (on bottom half of case), and hence the discussion. In this case the CPU has a nice airflow, its the bottom half they sealed up.

The Define S is a good 5C hotter than better airflow cases at the gpu in a climate controlled room. Why wait for the GPU to thermally throttle, which will limit the temp rise, and allow the cpu exhaust to pick the slack (and maybe not show much increase in temp there)\

Hot pockets are not a good thing
Edited by BigHotAndLoud - 10/26/15 at 6:10pm
post #26 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by tehelelol View Post

No I thought about cutting it out completely with some kind of hacksaw thumb.gif
I guess it will be worth it?

I was thinking of drilling some holes out first pre assembly (so I can be sure all metal is cleaned out prior to build), and no pci-e covers and see how I am doing.
If that does not work I will cut it all out.

I also plan on keeping the GPU selection to stay with good performance to Watt cards. For now I will reuse my Tonga powered card, and wait till newer FinFET gpus come out next year, and find the sweet spot for performance/watt in the 500 dollar gpu range

I have not finalized my case selection, the R5 is so much better than the S other than the front air flow.. man I wish they made a best of both model.
Fun fun
post #27 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by compy532 View Post

Any particular reason to mount the rad on the front? If you're pulling air from the front the rad will heat it up and the rest of your case will rise in temperature. In my opinion you should mount it to the top or use the front fans as exhausts. The latter being harder to achieve good airflow.

In theory this sounds true but the air coming through the rad is hardly ever hot, not even warm therefore rise in temps are marginal. I had this setup with a air 240.

The mastercase 5 can not hold a rad up top only the Pro 5 so I was just checking but thanks for the suggestion.

Anyone on the fans best for this setup?
post #28 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithydan View Post

In theory this sounds true but the air coming through the rad is hardly ever hot, not even warm therefore rise in temps are marginal. I had this setup with a air 240.

The mastercase 5 can not hold a rad up top only the Pro 5 so I was just checking but thanks for the suggestion.

Anyone on the fans best for this setup?



White - proposed radiator position
Red - hot (warmer than ambient) air
Blue - ambient air

Ok, my paint skills are horrid but that's what I imagine when you say that. You have one fan (whose output will be disrupted by the psu cover) bringing in cool air.
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2 x 240 GB Samsung 840 Evo + 2TB Western Digita... EK Coolstream XE 360 6 x EK Vardar F4-120 ER XSPC Raystorm Pro 
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EK Xres-140 D5 PWM EK 980 ti Nickel + Acetal FCB Windows 7 ASUS PB278Q  
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Eversor v2.0
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4690k 4.7ghz @1.25v ASUS Maximus VII Hero EVGA GTX 980 TI Reference 80% ASIC 16GB DDR3 1600 Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
2 x 240 GB Samsung 840 Evo + 2TB Western Digita... EK Coolstream XE 360 6 x EK Vardar F4-120 ER XSPC Raystorm Pro 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
EK Xres-140 D5 PWM EK 980 ti Nickel + Acetal FCB Windows 7 ASUS PB278Q  
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Cooler Master Quickfire TK EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 P2 Phanteks Enthoo Evolv ATX Mionix Castor 
Mouse PadAudio
Zowie G-SR Schiit Modi Optical -> Schiit Asgaard 2 -> Senn... 
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post #29 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by compy532 View Post



You have one fan (whose output will be disrupted by the psu cover) bringing in cool air.

looks like half of the cool air goes under the psu shroud and then gets forced behind the motherboard?

weird design
post #30 of 109
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHotAndLoud View Post

I was thinking of drilling some holes out first pre assembly (so I can be sure all metal is cleaned out prior to build), and no pci-e covers and see how I am doing.
If that does not work I will cut it all out.

I also plan on keeping the GPU selection to stay with good performance to Watt cards. For now I will reuse my Tonga powered card, and wait till newer FinFET gpus come out next year, and find the sweet spot for performance/watt in the 500 dollar gpu range

I have not finalized my case selection, the R5 is so much better than the S other than the front air flow.. man I wish they made a best of both model.
Fun fun

Where is the R5 better? If you clean out the back it shouldn't make that much difference?
I guess open PCIe covers and open back is plenty of airflow room so the GPU heat can get pushed out.
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