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[VB] Even though Gamers said they would stop, Game pre-orders are up 24% in 2015 - Page 15

post #141 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thready View Post

My formal education is in psychology so let me try my best to make sense of this. This is just my hypothesis and this is to be taken with a grain of salt but I think some of you might agree with me.

I think the whole preorder nonsense (and I call it nonsense because it is) revolves around a need for instant gratification. The person has a hard time waiting for the game and they might need to get that preorder out of their system. It's like they feel that buying the game early will somehow benefit them. For what reason, I don't know. But I've been on enough forums to know the logic they use. They say things like, "It's going to be good anyways so I'll just buy it now." So that sort of sentiment is why I think this has to do with that instant gratification. Buying it NOW doesn't let you play it early, but you kind of get that feeling like you're getting into the game early. You know what I mean?

And a lot of people who can't stand to wait for things also experience negative emotions moreso than people who don't have a problem waiting for things. It's like it feels physically uncomfortable to wait. There was an experiment where a psychologist had children sitting at a table and he put a marshmallow in front of them. He told them they could eat the marshmallow now, or if they waited 10 minutes they would get 2 marshmallows. Many kids ate the marshmallow immediately because the feeling of sitting there at the table without eating it felt uncomfortable. They were squirming in their chairs. And the kids who were able to wait were followed up later in life and many of them had more positive outcomes when it came to school, careers, etc. All because they could handle delayed gratification better.

So all of this makes me think that the preorder stuff has to do with that uncomfortable feeling of having to wait for the game to come out and not being able to handle the anticipation. That may be why some of the gamers polled felt a sense of sadness. They can't handle the emotion of having to wait very long so they buy the game now even if it doesn't give them any advantage.

And I think game companies profit from this. And I may be wrong but I think many of the people who preorder are younger. And younger people have a much harder time waiting for things. When you get into your 30s you find it much easier to wait for something. I would like to see the age range of those polled but it might be hard to see those who were under 18 when they preordered because it's tricky getting data from people under 18 with polling due to legal issues.

edit: here's the link to the marshmallow experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment

Is it age, or is it free time. I find that during the winter months when work is slow and I have a lot of free time, I'm much more apt to do things like pre-order things, while in the spring and summer months when I'm extremely busy, I don't have the time to look to see what's coming out soon to pre-order it. It works out great because in the slow winter months I can look back on all the movies, games, random toys and whatnot that came out in the summer that I didn't even know about and enjoy those things.

But yeah, as someone in their 30's I find that my priorities have shifted to things like work, bills, repairing things around the house, etc. etc. eating more and more into the free time I had in my teens and 20's.


As someone with a psych background, is there really just more patience to wait with age or is more related to loss in free-time due to priority shift mitigating that boredom leading to anticipation?
post #142 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocknut View Post

doesnt matter as long as I am not one of them

And I will not pay more than $10 for a Game+DLC. biggrin.gif
I'm getting to be more and more like this...especially after I burned out on gaming a few years back I lost the fire I had for new releases. I find myself enjoying old PC titles and SNES games tongue.gif
    
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post #143 of 231
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post

Yes, it is, because the most fundamental expectaction people have from a game is the answer to the question "Why do we buy games?"
The simplest one is "Because we get enjoyment out of them." As long as a sizable group of people enjoy FO:NV more than they do TW3, it's all subjective. When a game's worth is defined in unequal measures by different groups of people, universal lines can't be drawn.

Fully agree. I'm honest, i've found myself cursing bugs in games that i've pre-ordered. I should practice what i preach. However, i've always gotten my money's worth back in entertainment from games i pre-order, so all's well.

Obviously, there's something to be said about the precedent i'm helping create. "Be the change you want for the World" and all that. I think we're past the point of no return, though.

Well while the group advocating Fallout: NV (or Fallout series in general) is larger than TW3, Witcher 3 still managed to get greater review scores. So that's something to be said about a much smaller game overall, being as successful as it was. Of course a game's enjoyment factor is subjective in some sense, however there are other variables to take in account like I mentioned previously. For instance, the biggest factor is the the fan base for said game. Translation, if a game has a large fan base, these individuals are much less likely to give it a negative review because they are automatically going into playing the game with a biased viewpoint. Therefore they have no reason to taint the reputation of said title because of their allegiance already pledged to the company and the series. A good example I can give you is Call of Duty. This series has released some terrible games, Ghosts comes to mind right off the top of my head and more recently after playing the beta Black Ops III. These two games are absolutely awful in all senses, but fans of the series will defend the games regardless because they already developed brand loyalty. Mind you I was a big player of MW, MW2, Black Ops and Black Ops 2. But I can say without hesitation that the majority of the titles that begin with Call of Duty are absolute garbage. MW3 was probably one of the worst games I ever played, Ghosts was absolutely atrocious, and Black Ops III almost felt like a big joke to Black Ops fans with the ridiculous wall running and specialty abilities. I was a big fan of Treyarch and I pretty much believed that any Call of Duty they would release would be great, until of course I played Black Ops III and realized it was as if everyone who was involved with the previous iterations was fired and an entirely new team took stage. So as I said previously, a good portion of the people claiming a game is copacetic are inherently influenced by some sort of attachment towards a publisher, developer, or game.

I'll be honest here, I tried to play the Witcher 2 numerous of times. I really couldn't get into it, as a whole I thought it was horrible. However, for Witcher 3 I thought it was a work of art and incredible. Even after playing the Witcher 3 and completing it 100% along with the DLC. I thought to myself maybe I should go back and try to play the Witcher 2, put some mods on it, make it look better, make it play better, etc. but I went back on that idea after counting how many times I tried to play the Witcher 2 and attempted to give it a chance already.

See you have had both negative and positive experiences with pre-ordering, but nevertheless you still continue to pre-order even though you questioned whether or not it was worth it based on the bugs. You see it as passing through the event horizon, and there is no going back. However, I firmly believe there is always the ability in someone or something to change and because of that I still continue to not pre-order. Realistically, I never saw a trailer or a game where I was like, "Oh jeez, I need to pre-order that." Some other people might be different, however that's how I have always been. It's always been my main objective in gaming to buy the game for the lowest price I can possibly, and if that requires me to wait much longer than its release date then so be it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

CDPR is also a very small, off the beaten path Studio that has worked on the Witcher 3 for over 3 years. Development actually started in early 2012.

CDPR has the ability to do what other studio's can't due to the curve.

Studios, in regards to aggregate costs, basically form a bell curve...Smaller studio means longer development but, significantly more earnings...Larger studio has to truly be large in order to shorten development to combat the size of the studio and thus, earns significantly more.

So CDPR, regardless of hype, can actually afford to give DLC's out for free (2 of which were FINISHED in time for launch btw) where-as a studio on the top of the bell curve, like 2k, cannot...

I agree with your premise, however.
Absolutely.

I have major issues with the "vote with your wallet", movement. It went from being something most of us could get behind, into a mob that literally trashes smaller developer studios because gamers didn't get EXACTLY what they wanted.

Hypocritical is an understatement.
I don't agree with the word botched.

There have genuinely only been 2 BROKEN products on launch in the past 5 years...Batman and Aliens.

Aside from those 2 products, most of the market complains about bugs...Well, bugs happen but, they're not game breaking.

Game breaking is when the product literally is unplayable. - That is by definition, game-breaking.

Instead, gamers qualify game-breaking as any bug/issue that causes them distress within the 4 corners of the product.

I fell through the world for 2 weeks straight in Skyrim - Do I get to qualify that as game-breaking?

We also live in an era where serious bugs, get tackled instantly...So the level of testing that took place with Diablo 2, isn't necessary with Skyrim...

It really is a double edged sword...

What begs to be the question, is after the success of Witcher 3, does CDPR become a larger studio, which prevents them from the greatness they achieved as a smaller studio?

That's the funny thing, with trashing smaller studios. Is after 115 hours of gameplay in the Witcher 3, I ran into two game breaking bugs (missions being restricted from completion). Both were fixed by patches, while not immediately, in literally two to three weeks time for both instances. So while I don't expect to get exactly what I want or wanted, I still have gotten what I needed. As the Rolling Stones said, "You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometime you find, You get what you need"

While Batman: Arkham Knight and Aliens: Colonial Marines were pretty bad, we still cannot dismiss Dead Rising 3, Dark Souls 2, Watch_Dogs, and Assassin’s Creed: Unity. There are other games too, but that is just off the top of my head. I played both Dead Rising 3 and Watch_Dogs and beat both of them 100%. Now while my experiences with them weren't as bad as some others; as far as the majority goes they were still dreadful ports.

As far as game-breaking goes, I would qualify falling through the world of Skyrim for two weeks straight definitively game breaking. However, it's not really the bugs or optimizations that are the issue. It's the problem with developers and publishers releasing the games to the public, and allowing people to purchase them, already knowing they aren't really 100% playable. As if they pretend already to not know of whether these glitches, bugs, or performance issues exist. When we all know that is practically impossible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nvidia Fanboy View Post

It is all extremely subjective. Everything you just said is subjective. I found the hype for Witcher 3 to be immense both on this site and on all other gaming sites. People were crowning it a potential game of the year before it was even released. While you and most other gamers loved it, I personally couldn't stand the game. I actually had to use my Steam refund on it because it bored me to tears.

Let's not start treating our opinions as facts.

What games to do you typically play? Are you normally known for playing RPGs or do you often play FPS? Gaming genres are subjective, however, what isn't subjective is whether or not the majority of people liked a particular game. What is also included in that, is what is the fan base for said game. As in how many people are already attributing to positive reviews because they are avid fans of the series or developers. Which tends to construe reviews sometimes. Which is what I was accrediting to Fallout:NV's positive reviews. While it is an opinion, there is a difference between an opinion supported by facts and merely an opinion unsupported by nothing but feelings and emotions.

Here's something to consider, even after they publicized the Witcher 3 graphical downgrade, the game still got rave reviews, even from PC reviewers. How often does that occur in the PC Gaming world, where consumers simply let a graphical downgrade slide like that? Unless of course the content itself made up for anything that may have occurred visually.

You might say it bored you to tears, but you know what bored me to tears and left me bewildered. The Witcher 2. Tried to play the game multiples of times and couldn't make my way through it. But the Witcher 3 I thought was wonderful. So I have quite a varied opinion on games that I might consider a masterpiece or what I might consider a catastrophe.
Edited by BiG StroOnZ - 10/27/15 at 7:15pm
post #144 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiG StroOnZ View Post

Well while the group advocating Fallout: NV (or Fallout series in general) is larger than TW3, Witcher 3 still managed to get greater review scores. So that's something to be said about a much smaller game overall, being as successful as it was. Of course a game's enjoyment factor is subjective in some sense, however there are other variables to take in account like I mentioned previously. For instance, the biggest factor is the the fan base for said game. Translation, if a game has a large fan base, these individuals are much less likely to give it a negative review because they are automatically going into playing the game with a biased viewpoint. Therefore they have no reason to taint the reputation of said title because of their allegiance already pledged to the company and the series. A good example I can give you is Call of Duty. This series has released some terrible games, Ghosts comes to mind right off the top of my head and more recently after playing the beta Black Ops III. These two games are absolutely awful in all senses, but fans of the series will defend the games regardless because they already developed brand loyalty. Mind you I was a big player of MW, MW2, Black Ops and Black Ops 2. But I can say without hesitation that the majority of the titles that begin with Call of Duty are absolute garbage. MW3 was probably one of the worst games I ever played, Ghosts was absolutely atrocious, and Black Ops III almost felt like a big joke to Black Ops fans with the ridiculous wall running and specialty abilities. I was a big fan of Treyarch and I pretty much believed that any Call of Duty they would release would be great, until of course I played Black Ops III and realized it was as if everyone who was involved with the previous iterations was fired and an entirely new team took stage. So as I said previously, a good portion of the people claiming a game is copacetic are inherently influenced by some sort of attachment towards a publisher, developer, or game.

I'll be honest here, I tried to play the Witcher 2 numerous of times. I really couldn't get into it, as a whole I thought it was terrible. However, for Witcher 3 I thought it was a work of art and incredible. Even after playing the Witcher 3 and completing it 100% along with the DLC. I thought to myself maybe I should go back and try to play the Witcher 2, put some mods on it, make it look better, make it play better, etc. but I went back on that idea after counting how many times I tried to play the Witcher 2 and attempted to give it a chance.

See you have had both negative and positive experiences with pre-ordering, but nevertheless you still continue to pre-order even though you questioned whether or not it was worth it based on the bugs. You see it as passing through the event horizon, and there is no going back. However, I firmly believe there is always the ability in someone or something to change and because of that I still continue to not pre-order. Realistically, I never saw a trailer or a game where I was like, "Oh jeez, I need to pre-order that." Some other people might be different, however that's how I have always been. It's always been my main objective in gaming to buy the game for the lowest price I can possibly, and if that requires me to wait much longer than its release date then so be it.
What begs to be the question, is after the success of Witcher 3, does CDPR become a larger studio, which prevents them from the greatness they achieved as a smaller studio?

That's the funny thing, with trashing smaller studios. Is after 115 hours of gameplay in the Witcher 3, I ran into two game breaking bugs (missions being restricted from completion). Both were fixed by patches, while not immediately, in literally two to three weeks time for both instances. So while I don't expect to get exactly what I want or wanted, I still have gotten what I needed. As the Rolling Stones said, "You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometime you find, You get what you need"

While Batman: Arkham Knight and Aliens: Colonial Marines were pretty bad, we still cannot dismiss Dead Rising 3, Dark Souls 2, Watch_Dogs, and Assassin’s Creed: Unity. There are other games too, but that is just off the top of my head. I played both Dead Rising 3 and Watch_Dogs and beat both of them 100% now while my experiences with them weren't as bad as some others; as far as the majority goes they were still dreadful ports.

As far as game-breaking goes, I would qualify falling through the world of Skyrim for two weeks straight definitively game breaking. However, it's not really the bugs or optimizations that are the issue. It's the problem with developers and publishers releasing the games to the public, and allowing people to purchase them, already knowing they aren't really 100% playable. As if they pretend already to not know of whether these glitches, bugs, or performance issues exist. When we all know that is practically impossible.
What games to do you typically play? Are you normally known for playing RPGs or do you often play FPS? Gaming genres are subjective, however, what isn't subjective is whether or not the majority of people liked a particular game. What is also included in that, is what is the fan base for said game. As in how many people are already attributing to positive reviews because they are avid fans of the series or developers. Which tends to construe reviews sometimes. Which is what I was accrediting to Fallout:NV's positive reviews. While it is an opinion, there is a difference between an opinion supported by facts and merely an opinion unsupported by nothing but feelings and emotions.

Here's something to consider, even after they publicized the Witcher 3 graphical downgrade, the game still got rave reviews, even from PC reviewers. You might say it bored you to tears, but you know what bored me to tears and left me bewildered. The Witcher 2. Tried to play the game multiples of times and couldn't make my way through it. But the Witcher 3 I thought was wonderful. So I have quite a varied opinion on games on what I might consider a masterpiece or what I might consider a catastrophe.

I played the first Witcher and had a blast with it. I never finished the game but I put in quite a number of hours into it. I didn't like the Witcher 2 either. Something about the game just turned me off. I thought I'd roll the dice on the Witcher 3 but it turned out to be a big miss for me. I can't objectively say why I didn't like it. It just did nothing for me.

An opinion supported by data is definitely worth more than one without. I believe your original statement was something about FO3 being overhyped while the Witcher 3 was not. I apologize if I'm twisting your words. I'm too lazy to scroll back up and read what was originally said. The issue I have is that "hype" is not a quantifiable unit of measurement. There's no way anyone can prove with objective data that one massively popular game was more hyped than another massively popular game.
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post #145 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

Because gamers are stupid.

They will be hit with unplayable first day games or bad ports, yet they will pre-order the next game because they must have the latest game.
They will go against AMD or Nvidia or gameworks or whatever, then they will buy the game which support it anyway.

People in general like to complain but they will not do anything about it.

Alpha and beta testing is irrelevant argument, since very few games give alpha or beta access to pre-orders specifically. And I don't think it is the gamers responsibility to fix bugs instead of the developing studio, since most of them won't post about bugs anyway, since they are there mainly for the free gaming.

People will not wait 1 year for a discounted GOTY addition will all the DLCs and save a lot of money, since they must have the game now, pre order now, get all the DLCs when they come, get everything, play barely half of it, and then complain why it cost so much.

Because gamers are stupid.
I hate to say it, but it is pretty much true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgrwng View Post

LL

i stopped pre-ordering games years ago. just felt burned in the end with games i ended up not liking. i hope that my lack of contribution to buying games helps future game innovation, which, according to the article is not helping, haha. maybe if those preordering follow the bank of gamestop system (moving money around from game to game), will keep game creators on their toes. if game creators want to tease us into preordering with a 20 second advert or 5 minutes of gameplay, we should be able to tease a sale to them by moving money around.
That is awesome.
Edited by Nukemaster - 10/27/15 at 7:25pm
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post #146 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC'ing Noob View Post

- Potentially sooner access to the video game and playing the game
- If you pre-ordered a physical copy or a collector's edition, you can usually pick it up midnight or as soon as the store opens
- Show of support for the developer

you won't be getting it any sooner than the stated release date, so why not pre-order a few days before the release date?

thats if the game isn't a few years till release date.

you mean feed them more profits? for such a large, rich company, they sure are running low on cash huh.
cash isn't the right "support" for a dev team, i doubt the developers even gets a bonus for every pre-ordered game, they have a fixed salary.
rather, its positive feedback, give them a good image so that their released games can be bought better, even if they were to move to a different company.
Edited by epic1337 - 10/27/15 at 9:54pm
post #147 of 231
I blame the kids. Personally, I wont pre-order unless its from a handful of devs. that have been around for 10+ years and the vibe of OCN about pre-orders is a phat NO. So, i blame the kids. But a 23% rise is hard to believe. That would mean people haven't learned their lesson or don't a crap or console and PC growth has really gone up which goes against reports of the market. BS article??
post #148 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

you won't be getting it any sooner than the stated release date, so why not pre-order a few days before the release date?

thats if the game isn't a few years till release date.

you mean feed them more profits? for such a large, rich company, they sure are running low on cash huh.
cash isn't the right "support" for a dev team, i doubt the developers even gets a bonus for every pre-ordered game, they have a fixed salary.
rather, its positive feedback, give them a good image so that their released games can be bought better, even if they were to move to a different company.

I always wait until the last week or two myself. Best way to get a good deal. Take Fallout 4. It's $60 on steam and had been $48 on greenman with a 20% off code. A day or two ago they replaced the 20% code with a 22% code. Sure, it's only saving another $2, but, shows that waiting some pays off.

As for pre-ordering in general I've hit the point that I own every game I'd want to play. I guess that's why I finally started pre-ordering.

Looking the games this guy listed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNMock View Post

How much of that has to do with Fallout 4, Witcher 3, GTA V, Halo 5, Metal Gear: Phantom Pain etc. etc. vs Shadow of Mordor, Dragon Age, and AC: Unity.

Lots more dependable, good games this year than last year.

I own all of those expect for Halo 5 (no xbox) and AC:Unity. I'm really not huge in the AC games.

I mean, hell, there just comes a point that the only games you want are the ones coming out. I guess that's the point where you start pre-ordering.
     
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post #149 of 231
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Originally Posted by Madog View Post

I blame the kids. Personally, I wont pre-order unless its from a handful of devs. that have been around for 10+ years and the vibe of OCN about pre-orders is a phat NO. So, i blame the kids. But a 23% rise is hard to believe. That would mean people haven't learned their lesson or don't a crap or console and PC growth has really gone up which goes against reports of the market. BS article??

Over the past 10 years, pre-orders went from payment up-front to being, free.

All on-line retailers allow for free pre-orders.

Brick and mortars now take $1.

Pre-orders are up because they're convenient, virtually free until they ship and it's all completely hassle free.

I really don't understand why someone would put full value down for a pre-order anymore, it just doesn't make sense.
post #150 of 231
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Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Defend what practice?

Amazon's policy:
Best-buy - Same.

Game-Stop - Same.

Walmart - Same.

Target - Same.

Reviews come out 3-5 days before a product launches. Making the pre-order was FREE. Go online and cancel your pre-order if you don't want the product.

Then there is no $60 pre-order because there is no order.

Or, walk to a brick and mortar of ANY of the above (Including Amazon in select locations)...Give the guy a $5 bill and split it on 5 pre-orders. If one of the games you pre-ordered turns out to be garbage, walk back in at your earliest convenience and move that $1 credit, somewhere else.

It's really not complicated.

But why not just buy the game once it released and enough people played it? Seems much more convenient than cancelling every time something is crap. Or do you really get so excited about every new game that you need to play it asap?
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2013
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 2700k GIGABYTE GA-Z77-D3H Sapphire HD 7870 XT Boost G.SKILL 1866 Sniper 2x4 GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
Samsung 840 Basic Crucial MX200 Windows 10 HP IPS 23-inch 1080p 
PowerCaseMouse
Be quiet! BN144 System Power 7 500W NZXT Tempest 210 Zowie FK1 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Video Game News › [VB] Even though Gamers said they would stop, Game pre-orders are up 24% in 2015