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[VB] Even though Gamers said they would stop, Game pre-orders are up 24% in 2015 - Page 19

post #181 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Unethical = Shady. Immoral = Shady. Shady = Shady.

Unethical + Immoral + Taking advantage of a 3rd world's price-structuring to it's consumers = Shady.

Again, it hurts us as an industry because eventually, those publishers are just going to say "screw it" and charge the same mean value to us all...

God, the irony - You people push "vote with your wallets" hard but, only when it benefits you directly...When you rob from Peter to pay Paul, it's just fine - LOL. Hypocrites man. /SMH

Semantics lol. I agree it's unethical/immoral - wouldn't personally use the word "shady" though. Anyway, if they wanted to they could region lock those keys and this wouldn't be an issue (like with Valve: http://www.engadget.com/2014/12/17/steam-region-locking/).
post #182 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Another person that doesn't understand how Pre-Orders actually work.

In this industry, you are not CHARGED for a pre-order UNTIL IT IS DELIVERED TO YOU.

Therefor, there is no SALE until the product is released.

So no, you are not SELLING the product in advance, you are RESERVING your copy in point of sale.

Therefor no money can be used for R&D or ANYTHING because NO MONEY IS TRANSFERRED UNTIL RELEASE.

So, no. It is not a guarantee of potential buyers because you can still cancel and/or ignore a pre-order, or defer and transfer the pre order and MANY wait for reviews (3-4 days before launch) to ultimately decide on the status of their order IE Keep or Cancel.

That is how pre-ordering works in 2015. Welcome to the real world.

wow, i think you just missed my entire point.
post #183 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxdarkreap3rxx View Post

Semantics lol. I agree it's unethical/immoral - wouldn't personally use the word "shady" though. Anyway, if they wanted to they could region lock those keys and this wouldn't be an issue (like with Valve: http://www.engadget.com/2014/12/17/steam-region-locking/).

Shady doesn't necessary mean illegal, it also means underhanded, dishonest, morally compromised, ect. Shady basically means you lack morals or ethics. While there is overlap with legality, it does not have to be illegal. If GMG keeps pulling stunts like that to circumvent publishers, you can bet that keys will become regional locked, which only hurts EVERYONE.
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post #184 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

wow, i think you just missed my entire point.

No, I didn't.

With how pre-orders work, your point is irrelevant because legally it could never happen.

In order for an exchange of goods to occur, I have to legally receive goods on payment.

No payment in this industry is made until delivery of the product.

Therefor the publisher receives NO PRE ORDER MONEY EVER until after final sale on release of the product.

That literally renders your entire argument moot as did my pre-order explanation.

Since no money is EVER transferred to the studio UNTIL final sale - Pre orders account for 0% of revenue, period.
post #185 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC'ing Noob View Post

Shady doesn't necessary mean illegal, it also means underhanded, dishonest, morally compromised, ect. Shady basically means you lack morals or ethics. While there is overlap with legality, it does not have to be illegal. If GMG keeps pulling stunts like that to circumvent publishers, you can bet that keys will become regional locked, which only hurts EVERYONE.

Idk if I agree with that definition but its use in this context is slang so no point in really arguing over it anymore.

It could put GMG out of business if they acquire such keys but more DRM really hurts consumers like you've stated. There's no way for them to win, only for the consumer to lose.
post #186 of 231
I got used to being able to download a small portion of the game for free first. Then I could evaluate for myself how the game was going to run on my sys, and how it was going to look. It was up to me then whether I wanted to buy the game or not. What happened to all that ?
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post #187 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtjeep View Post

I got used to being able to download a small portion of the game for free first. Then I could evaluate for myself how the game was going to run on my sys, and how it was going to look. It was up to me then whether I wanted to buy the game or not. What happened to all that ?

So, 5/6 years ago, when demos were still a thing; the # of systems and major variations was limited...So, it was very easy to allow for 50 systems to play the basic product.

Now, that's not possible.

In the past 5 years, the amount of major part variables exploded...It's very, very difficult to push optimization ESPECIALLY before launch...And then the whole free pre-order thing came into fruition...They basically just phased out over time...

Steam still allows you a full refund - Could think of that as a demo...In fact, that basically is a demo...Albeit your assets are held in space over the interim...

As to why PS4/XB1 demos don't exist - I have 0 insight into that but, you could throw a stick at any developer, ask them about optimization and they'll drop more like 22c on you as opposed to 2c...
post #188 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

No, I didn't.

With how pre-orders work, your point is irrelevant because legally it could never happen.

In order for an exchange of goods to occur, I have to legally receive goods on payment.

No payment in this industry is made until delivery of the product.

Therefor the publisher receives NO PRE ORDER MONEY EVER until after final sale on release of the product.

That literally renders your entire argument moot as did my pre-order explanation.

Since no money is EVER transferred to the studio UNTIL final sale - Pre orders account for 0% of revenue, period.
you still missed the point. thumb.gif
post #189 of 231
I don't per-order often but when I do its usually because they are offering something I see value in or because its a limited run. Take collectors editions, I love how blizzard puts together collectors editions so I will gladly pre order them so I get the art books and the cool packaging. Also feel like the community (At least on here) acts like every game is broken at launch. I have per-ordered plenty of games that worked fine at launch. I have also pre ordered games that sucked (FFXIV i'm looking at you......worst launch ever in my opinion).
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post #190 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

you still missed the point. thumb.gif

Orly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

thats a bad analogy.

pre-orders (the classic meaning of it) is selling a product that doesn't exist (yet at the very least).
you can sell said product in advance which would net you profit even without manufacturing said product for the next few weeks.
you can use the money payed for the pre-ordered product for R&D or whatever you can think of.

basically pre-ordering is used to guarantee that there'd be potential buyers (no pre-order = no one is interested = pointless to continue the product), and get funds for R&D or just "D" of R&D.

Your "point" is that classically a pre-order was purchasing a product at full value. Classically, this failed which is why this practice, is no longer actually followed, almost anywhere.

Your theory is that if you could classically pre-order a product than that money could be put to good use since you'd have a positive revenue flow before launch. Once again, this failed because people would charge back on their credit cards, keep the product; creators would never follow through...It was a cluster.

Your final theory is that the money, classically earned for a pre-order could be put to whatever you wanted it to be.

In practice, sure - In reality, it failed which is why the system in and of, itself, no longer exists.

In reality, the real world, 2015, we don't put forward cash without goods or some merit of those goods. A pre-order does not qualify as some merit of those goods. It just doesn't.

I've explained why numerous times, don't feel like doing it again. - Also, I explained why this concept failed in my pre-order explanation.

So, yes, I did get your point but, it's a fallacy. It's about as foreseeable as an army of Oompa Loompa's attacking the Queen of England. Therefor, once again, your theory fails as does your hypothesis. Good day, sir.
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