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[Engadget] DOJ: Apple owns your iPhone's software, so it should have a backdoor - Page 4

post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum Reality View Post

The DOJ has exposed a very interesting point though.

Many software companies have relied very heavily on the fact that users don't technically "own" the software they use - rather they own a licence to use the software which generally comes with what would be many printed pages of dense legalese regarding under what terms and conditions a user may use that software.

As such, the point the DOJ makes is that if ultimately, Apple (or another company) owns the software and not the end user, then there is a high probability that in so assiduously securing for themselves the right to dictate the use of software, they have included in those terms and conditions legal language to the effect that they have sole right of control over, for example, the source code - and thus, the end user is not really the one whose consent is needed to access a device that runs that software.

Copyright fetishism may well have unintentionally created a very bad precedent for end-running Constitutional protections.

Would this apply to Ubuntu as well ? , just curious as there are already phones with this OS.
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post #32 of 46
I don't know all the facts....barely any.....but if the DOJ is really pushing this hard, the defendant must be a real dirt bag.

On top of this...this reveals a very interesting hole in the whole licencing scheme.
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post #33 of 46
What I find most impressive, is that this defendant is able to have a pass cod the DOJ cannot break by themselves.
post #34 of 46
I gotta say.. Keep up the good work work, Apple!

BTW if you really want to know how advanced and secure iOS is, read this doc from apple: https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf
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post #35 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaaQ View Post

What I find most impressive, is that this defendant is able to have a pass cod the DOJ cannot break by themselves.

Depends how it's set up. He could have it set to erase the phone after 10 wrong attempts, in which would be nearly impossible for the authorities to guess. Given that a you have 10 numbers ( 0-9 ) and a 4 digit pass code you're looking at something like 10,000 combinations. That's just for your basic 4 digit pass code though. The person could easily use 6 digit numeric ( 1,000,000 possibilities ), custom numeric ( unlimited ), or alpha numeric ( unlimited ) which then add even more complexity to the problem. Now the biggest factor aside from that, as with all security, is time. It takes a second for phones to check the pass codes when wrong, extending the amount of time someone could brute force in.

Could they break it? Absolutely. They would just need more time than is humanly possible to do within the lifetime of the person in question. And aside from time, I don't think they want to put those kind of resources into a case unless we were talking global nuclear war catastrophic in which time they'd probably just commandeer Titan and all the other super computers and start cracking extremely fast ( again, assuming the phone isn't set to erase itself after 10 attempts ).

Aside from going into the front door with a key, the only other possibility is going in through a back door, which is what the DOJ wants Apple to add. It would be a much simpler for them to just be able to walk right in ( what they want ).
post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomytom99 View Post

"threaten the trust between Apple and its customers and substantially tarnish the Apple brand"

I feel that Apple's just being their capitalistic selves, they just want to save all the money they can. Why spend just a couple thousand of dollars (if even) on unlocking a device, when we don't have to?

Just another reason why I don't like Apple.

Heaven forbid a company makes good products and is rewarded by the market.
#BanProfits
#ICantEcon
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post #37 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robenger View Post

Heaven forbid a company makes good products and is rewarded by the market.
#BanProfits
#ICantEcon
It's almost like you search this forum for "capitalism"
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post #38 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

Depends how it's set up. He could have it set to erase the phone after 10 wrong attempts, in which would be nearly impossible for the authorities to guess. Given that a you have 10 numbers ( 0-9 ) and a 4 digit pass code you're looking at something like 10,000 combinations. That's just for your basic 4 digit pass code though. The person could easily use 6 digit numeric ( 1,000,000 possibilities ), custom numeric ( unlimited ), or alpha numeric ( unlimited ) which then add even more complexity to the problem. Now the biggest factor aside from that, as with all security, is time. It takes a second for phones to check the pass codes when wrong, extending the amount of time someone could brute force in.

Could they break it? Absolutely. They would just need more time than is humanly possible to do within the lifetime of the person in question. And aside from time, I don't think they want to put those kind of resources into a case unless we were talking global nuclear war catastrophic in which time they'd probably just commandeer Titan and all the other super computers and start cracking extremely fast ( again, assuming the phone isn't set to erase itself after 10 attempts ).

Aside from going into the front door with a key, the only other possibility is going in through a back door, which is what the DOJ wants Apple to add. It would be a much simpler for them to just be able to walk right in ( what they want ).

After being wrongfully arrested and detained, I now use alphanumeric case sensitive phone lock (although they did not apparently go thru my unlocked phone that I know of,which is all a story for another time)
I would like to know if Android is capable of wiping after x failed attempts (if you know ).
post #39 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

It's almost like you search this forum for "capitalism"

It was the second comment...
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post #40 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

They're only doing this to protect their brand image, no other reason.

Was about to post this when I stumbled upon someone who understands why Apple won't unlock the phone. If they were seen to be actively cooperating with authorities it would be very bad for their image and create lots of problems for them. The last thing Apple want is to get Googled (blocked) in China, which is where the majority of their profits come from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

I don't know all the facts....barely any.....but if the DOJ is really pushing this hard, the defendant must be a real dirt bag.

On top of this...this reveals a very interesting hole in the whole licencing scheme.

That's right, so in order for us to be certain you aren't as big a dirt bag as this guy you are going to make all your details public.

Thank you very much.
Edited by Liranan - 10/27/15 at 6:53pm
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