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[AnandTech] GeForce+Radeon: Previewing DirectX 12 Multi Adapter with Ashes of the Singularity - Page 16

post #151 of 326
Does the leveling of clock speeds with SLI/Xfire still apply with DX12? If it does the Fury would be crippling the 980Ti in Sli. Much better off running a pair of 1500mhz 980Ti's. I don't see this tech going anywhere as far as pairing up Nvidia and Amd together.
 
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post #152 of 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noufel View Post

can this solve the problem of Async compute on maxwell gpus @Mahigan

Yes, actually... Yes. But only on the workloads assigned to the AMD GPU. A developer could explicitly code for this but I doubt there is a market, large enough, to warrant the implementation.
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post #153 of 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcooperjr View Post


Does Nvidia own the DX12 rights or own Microsofts windows platform NO so essentially it is Microsofts bag and they decide if the cat gets to play in said bag or as I termed it before Windows is Microsofts playground / school if Nvidia or AMD don't play well they can essentially expel them or cut them off and also sue them because of the legally binding agreement they signed when they partnered with Microsoft on Microsofts project DX12 because it isn't Nvidia or AMD's project or OS. So Microsoft can give them the shaft anytime they choose they can go full hilt or take it easy it all depends on Microsoft not AMD / Nvidias choice only Microsoft get say in this matter.


Do Nvidia or AMD have theyre own OS that is such a large ecosystem NO so essentially they will be at mercy of Microsoft again Microsoft will hold the keys not AMD / Nvidia and DX12 is Microsofts baby and Microsoft already said 100% positive the multi GPU cross vendor / manufacturer functionality is a core part of DX12. So again if Nvidia or AMD try to do anything to combat this they got Microsoft to answer to and Microsoft can essentially leave either Nvidia or AMD screwed in every sense of the word because the core platform for gaming is windows and Nvidia / AMD know this and who is the largest and most powerfull software company on the planet Microsoft so essentially Microsoft could easily ruin either companies life at anytime if they so chose.

So essentially AMD / Nvidia answer to Microsoft at end of the day and they know if they upset Microsoft they are in trouble in so many ways in essence Microsoft will have control in the windows platform with DX12.

This is an interesting thought. The question is who should have the bigger share of the pc gaming value chain; the developer, MS, Intel, or other hardware providers including NV, AMD, Dispaly makers. The pie is only so big.... If the developers can figure out a way to work with MS in this dx 12 environment and limit the hardware providers to just that, the hardware that functions without a lot of middleware meddling, then perhaps the leverage shifts to the creators of content, and may be an incentive for them to invest more in optimizing games further to a common low level api standard (not sure what the technical term here is, so I am just sketching it out conceptually) particularly if they have MS's support and backing.
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post #154 of 326
I don't think NVIDIA will disable explicit multi-adapter but I do think that they will continue to disable PhysX on any sort of AMD/NVIDIA GPU combination.
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post #155 of 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcooperjr View Post

They can't it is part of the core functionality of DX12 and bypasses drivers itself and goes straight to the hardware

It doesn't bypass the driver, it's just not handled by the driver anymore. The app decides how to split the work up between each GPU, but the work that each GPU does still has to go through the driver before it's actually done, because it has to be translated(just-in-time compiled) into the language that the hardware understands.

So, it's now

APP
explicit mgpu control
v
DRIVER
compile
v
GPU(s)
render

instead of

APP
no mgpu control
v
DRIVER
attempt to split up work intended for single gpu into work for multiple
also compile
v
GPU(s)
render
Edited by dogen1 - 10/27/15 at 10:51am
post #156 of 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahigan View Post

Yes, actually... Yes. But only on the workloads assigned to the AMD GPU. A developer could explicitly code for this but I doubt there is a market, large enough, to warrant the implementation.
Thnx for the reply thumb.gif
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post #157 of 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcooperjr View Post


Does Nvidia own the DX12 rights or own Microsofts windows platform NO so essentially it is Microsofts bag and they decide if the cat gets to play in said bag or as I termed it before Windows is Microsofts playground / school if Nvidia or AMD don't play well they can essentially expel them or cut them off and also sue them because of the legally binding agreement they signed when they partnered with Microsoft on Microsofts project DX12 because it isn't Nvidia or AMD's project or OS. So Microsoft can give them the shaft anytime they choose they can go full hilt or take it easy it all depends on Microsoft not AMD / Nvidias choice only Microsoft get say in this matter.


Do Nvidia or AMD have theyre own OS that is such a large ecosystem NO so essentially they will be at mercy of Microsoft again Microsoft will hold the keys not AMD / Nvidia and DX12 is Microsofts baby and Microsoft already said 100% positive the multi GPU cross vendor / manufacturer functionality is a core part of DX12. So again if Nvidia or AMD try to do anything to combat this they got Microsoft to answer to and Microsoft can essentially leave either Nvidia or AMD screwed in every sense of the word because the core platform for gaming is windows and Nvidia / AMD know this and who is the largest and most powerfull software company on the planet Microsoft so essentially Microsoft could easily ruin either companies life at anytime if they so chose.

So essentially AMD / Nvidia answer to Microsoft at end of the day and they know if they upset Microsoft they are in trouble in so many ways in essence Microsoft will have control in the windows platform with DX12.

This is a capability described in feature levels of the hardware via a query mechanism. You can read about them here: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dn770364(v=vs.85).aspx

Naturally, any hardware is free to not enable these bits, but seeing as it is a major differentiating feature of D3D12, to not support them would obviously have marketing implications. If CrossAdapterRowMajorTextureSupported is set, then the cards are capable of being used in the manner that we are using them. There is a validation process called WHQL (pronounced wickle) where MS specifically tests this feature as well. About the only thing that is needed to be supported is the ability for the GPU to use system memory with a standard texture format.

There is also a standard swizzle format for more efficient sharing of textures between adapaters, but I'm unsure what hardware currently supports it. We hope that most future hardware will.
post #158 of 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogen1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcooperjr View Post

They can't it is part of the core functionality of DX12 and bypasses drivers itself and goes straight to the hardware

It doesn't bypass the driver, it's just not handled by the driver anymore. The app decides how to split the work up between each GPU, but the work that each GPU does still has to go through the driver before it's actually done, because it has to be translated(just-in-time compiled) into the language that the hardware understands.

So, it's now

APP
explicit mgpu control
v
DRIVER
compile
v
GPU(s)
render

instead of

APP
no mgpu control
v
DRIVER
attempt to split up work intended for single gpu into work for multiple
also compile
v
GPU(s)
render
So this meens the driver does nothing but compile it to a format each hardware can understand essentially making the driver do literally nothing other than say 7zip / win RAR it just puts it into the format the GPU can understand and does not tell said hardware or driver there is another competing GPU manufacturers card even in the mix all it sees is a workflow that needs compiled and that is the limit of the driver to GPU communication with DX12. The rest is done with the DX12 patch / code Microsoft gives developers and the software suite Microsoft develop to make it easy on DEV's and overtime said suite could become a plugin and literally be a plug and play experience for game / engine DEV's.

I will say this in short no more meddling and biased crap pulled by Nvidia or AMD it unifies the playing field and puts Microsoft in control yes Nvidia will have Gsync and such AMD freesync but that is a hardware side thing and is outside of Microsofts control but the DX12 situation is fully under Microsofts control. The point is Microsoft has learned over the years how badly this stuff effects games because of the crazy biased tactics and proprietary things these hardware manufacturers have been pushing into the games / engines and well Microsoft is stepping up and correcting it these proprietary things do not innovate creativity they stifle it and cause nothing but bickering and fighting and hold back advancement in hardware and software.
Edited by rickcooperjr - 10/27/15 at 11:16am
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post #159 of 326
The way I see it is this, people have been arguing about features of dx12 and who has more etc even to the point of making up a whole new dx12 (12.1) that is better because .1 etc but how can 1 vendor have all h/w features? They'd need to make the same card ie copy each other, each vendor ask ms to implement features specific to their hw, what does this have to do with this thread? Surely now we can have ALL the dx12 features* and I think this is the only way it will happen, only thing is (and I can see why the 'usuals' are worrying about their investments) if it truly turns better to run amd/nv over amd/amd or nv/nv amd have much more to gain because of the current market share.
*maybe mahigan could comment on whether this is true/feasible?
post #160 of 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcooperjr View Post

So this meens the driver does nothing but compile it to a format each hardware can understand essentially making the driver do literally nothing other than say 7zip / win RAR it just puts it into the format the GPU can understand and does not tell said hardware or driver there is another competing GPU manufacturers card even in the mix all it sees is a workflow that needs compiled and that is the limit of the driver to GPU communication with DX12. The rest is done with the DX12 patch / code Microsoft gives developers and the software suite Microsoft develop to make it easy on DEV's and overtime said suite could become a plugin and literally be a plug and play experience for game / engine DEV's.

Well, my explanation isn't really 100% accurate. There's a step in between the application and driver where the code gets compiled into the d3d bytecode, for example.
Tbh, I don't know the full extent of what drivers will do in the context of dx12. Maybe kollock can detail it a bit. And I'm not sure I would compare compiling with compressing, but I guess the analogy sort of works.

I'm not 100% sure what you're saying in the last part of your post. The people who make the program or game have to write all of this stuff now. I don't see how microsoft could just package up a dll for multi-gpu support, if that's what you're saying.
Edited by dogen1 - 10/27/15 at 11:19am
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