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[AnandTech] GeForce+Radeon: Previewing DirectX 12 Multi Adapter with Ashes of the Singularity - Page 6

post #51 of 326
This is great reading and potential for the future. This is what enthusiasts have been waiting for - not specifically, but this kind of diversity without direct involvement or investments from vendors. This is primarily down to the designers and how they see fit to use these rendering methods. Equally though, it's all well and good showing these demonstrations - but these things are still costly and it remains to be seen just what uptake we will see in the next two to three years.
post #52 of 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

So what are the numbers for a Fury X + 980Ti as compared to Fury X + Fury X or 980Ti + 980Ti?

To me, that is all that matters.

While the idea of having BOTH an AMD and nVidia card in the same box is "cute", I don't see the real advantage.

Who will Crossfire/SLI work? Will it only be as good as the worst driver? What if one card has a profile for game x, but the other card doesn't? How will Crossfire perform in non-Full Screen mode? (Crossfire DOESN'T work, but SLI does a little, so what will happen?)

But to me, the biggest point is ... who is really going to go out and get a G-Sync AND FreeSync monitor? I mean I do, but only because I'm insane, but I really don't see people buying one of each. Then there is the whole issue of how G-Sync/FreeSync performs in a dual manufacturer card situation.

I'm sorry, I just don't see an advantage of doing this as opposed to picking a side and getting 2 cards.

I see your point, Knucklehead, and there are definitely obstacles to overcome. However, those buying several GPUs to Crossfire or SLI are a minority. And Crossfire/SLI-ing top tier GPUs is even less common. Then there are quite a few who buy a midrange to upper-midrange GPU every couple of years and would be happy to reuse their previous card.

Ultimately, the market and interest of the consumers will decide whether this will take off. Still, we need to keep in mind that we've been stuck on 28nm for a while now and it will take another 5-7 years until the recently emerged silicon replacing technologies become economically viable options.
Edited by GreenStone - 10/26/15 at 12:20pm
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post #53 of 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

So what are the numbers for a Fury X + 980Ti as compared to Fury X + Fury X or 980Ti + 980Ti?

To me, that is all that matters.

While the idea of having BOTH an AMD and nVidia card in the same box is "cute", I don't see the real advantage.

Who will Crossfire/SLI work? Will it only be as good as the worst driver? What if one card has a profile for game x, but the other card doesn't? How will Crossfire perform in non-Full Screen mode? (Crossfire DOESN'T work, but SLI does a little, so what will happen?)

But to me, the biggest point is ... who is really going to go out and get a G-Sync AND FreeSync monitor? I mean I do, but only because I'm insane, but I really don't see people buying one of each. Then there is the whole issue of how G-Sync/FreeSync performs in a dual manufacturer card situation.

I'm sorry, I just don't see an advantage of doing this as opposed to picking a side and getting 2 cards.
frankly I considered this option only since I wanted to add a cheap 290X to my 980ti (or make 980ti run as gpu2 since I see amd is the better "driver") and maybe keep this until a bigger single GPU upgrade, since I don't own a freesync/gsync anyway.
I can't really imagine the headache of running this on a regular basis.
post #54 of 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klocek001 View Post

frankly I considered this option only since I wanted to add a cheap 290X to my 980ti (or make 980ti run as gpu2 since I see amd is the better "driver") and maybe keep this until a bigger single GPU upgrade, since I don't own a freesync/gsync anyway.
I can't really imagine the headache of running this on a regular basis.

Frankly I think both cards you mention will be obsolete by the time it is widespread enough. We are about to see a huge jump in both Arctic islands and Pascal. Think of it as a great direction industry is taking rather than opportunity to use any time soon.
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post #55 of 326
Sounds like a frame pacing nightmare to me. In a perfect world it would be fantastic if we could just mix and match whatever cards we felt like and get optimal performance, but call me a cynic if I see this ending up completely impractical, with an option that Nvidia just says NO to the whole idea.
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post #56 of 326
@Kollock , i have a question.
1 - when the AMD card is the "driver" , is it being fed with all possible Async compute and the nVidia "navigator" is being fed only with serial compute ?
2 - when the nVidia is the "driver", i presume that it is only being fed with serial compute, with all Async compute disabled, would that mean that the AMD "navigator" would also be fed with serial compute, instead of Async compute ?
This is what came up in my mind with the difference between a FuryX + 980Ti vs 980Ti + FuryX. Also, has nVidia shown up to you with some drivers that are supposed to "fix" the Async Computing issue (transfer it to software switch).
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post #57 of 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

So what are the numbers for a Fury X + 980Ti as compared to Fury X + Fury X or 980Ti + 980Ti?



Who will Crossfire/SLI work? Will it only be as good as the worst driver? What if one card has a profile for game x, but the other card doesn't? How will Crossfire perform in non-Full Screen mode? (Crossfire DOESN'T work, but SLI does a little, so what will happen?)

Profiles are irrelevant in explicit multi-GPU. In this mode, the driver has no explicity knowledge that is being used in conjunction with another GPU. Synchronization, frame pacing, latency are all being handled by the application. The primary advantage that SLI and crossfire give you is the possibility to share resources between the adapters in a more efficient manner. However, this would manifest itself by using linked mode adapter. For multi adapter approach, the primary thing you need is the ability to use shared adapter resources, with some possible performance benefits if the standard Swizzle format is supported. These are just features of D3D12.

Profiles are a very clunky cludge that was necessary in DX11, in DX12 explicit multi-GPU I do not see how a profile would have any meaningful advantage.
Edited by Kollock - 10/26/15 at 12:55pm
post #58 of 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by ku4eto View Post

@Kollock , i have a question.
1 - when the AMD card is the "driver" , is it being fed with all possible Async compute and the nVidia "navigator" is being fed only with serial compute ?
2 - when the nVidia is the "driver", i presume that it is only being fed with serial compute, with all Async compute disabled, would that mean that the AMD "navigator" would also be fed with serial compute, instead of Async compute ?
This is what came up in my mind with the difference between a FuryX + 980Ti vs 980Ti + FuryX. Also, has nVidia shown up to you with some drivers that are supposed to "fix" the Async Computing issue (transfer it to software switch).

No, were' not doing anything that fancy. But you could definitely treat a second video card as an additional graphics/compute queue. It would be a very interesting use case of Explicit Multi-GPU.

In terms of why there are differences, it's hard to say exactly. The primary GPU has some additional responsibilities in order to the handle the present. The present occurs on a separate queue that has to pre-empt the main rendering for a ms or 2 to get the frame from the other GPU on the display and deal with the upload of the shared memory resource. Usually what I see in GPU view with 2 identicle GPUs is that the second GPU isn't maxed out because it has a little less work to do. For this reason, if you have an asymmetry setup, I'd recommend always putting the faster GPU as the primary.
post #59 of 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by ku4eto View Post

@Kollock , i have a question.
1 - when the AMD card is the "driver" , is it being fed with all possible Async compute and the nVidia "navigator" is being fed only with serial compute ?
2 - when the nVidia is the "driver", i presume that it is only being fed with serial compute, with all Async compute disabled, would that mean that the AMD "navigator" would also be fed with serial compute, instead of Async compute ?
This is what came up in my mind with the difference between a FuryX + 980Ti vs 980Ti + FuryX. Also, has nVidia shown up to you with some drivers that are supposed to "fix" the Async Computing issue (transfer it to software switch).
could this hypothetically be the reason why 980ti + Fury X is worse than Fury X with 980ti ? Once Fury X is the GPU2 is uses serial not parallel compute and loses a bit of performance.
post #60 of 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kollock View Post

No, were' not doing anything that fancy. But you could definitely treat a second video card as an additional graphics/compute queue. It would be a very interesting use case of Explicit Multi-GPU.

In terms of why there are differences, it's hard to say exactly. The primary GPU has some additional responsibilities in order to the handle the present. The present occurs on a separate queue that has to pre-empt the main rendering for a ms or 2 to get the frame from the other GPU on the display and deal with the upload of the shared memory resource. Usually what I see in GPU view with 2 identicle GPUs is that the second GPU isn't maxed out because it has a little less work to do. For this reason, if you have an asymmetry setup, I'd recommend always putting the faster GPU as the primary.
Thanks for the answer, but this just leaves me with another question : are you using Async compute with multi-GPU at all, and if yes, is the quantity(quality ?) any different from a single AMD card? We know that nVidia has problems with this, and that AMD has a magic carpet for it, but if Async Compute is enabled, this can also serve as an idea on how much net gain/loss from using Async on both manufacturers can be.
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