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post #101 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by awdrifter View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieboyeli View Post

@brucethemoose
I think we're talking about different things here, SVP can't play videos without FFDShow, if you don't switch to it, you get the error "Waiting for ffdshow video".

See this is exactly what I'm talking about. No other codec pack covers everything.

As for VLC. I must say it's fantastic IF YOU'RE BLIND. I can't even be polite about it. If you have eyes, you can clearly see the VLC's renderer sucks. It takes no more power for MPC-BE to do a massively better job, even without madVR. In fact it's more efficient. You should have less load than VLC. But I'm not just going to sit here without sourcing my work. : Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


LOOK AT THE BLUR AND HAZE vvv


Even this guy is saying it. VLC is not a good media player.


The fact that you can see such a massive difference after being downscaled from the original resolution and converted to jpg and yet again downscaled by OCN into a smaller resolution SPEAKS VOLUMES ABOUT HOW FREAKING AWFUL VLC'S RENDERER IS. I call it the Gray Haze Renderer, because that's what it does, put a disgusting gray haze over everything.

You can come back from these depths though. Repent and vow never to use VLC again and you shall be forgiven.

VLC is the equivalent of an obviously poor chinese knock off that only a fool would buy. MPC-BE is the equivalent of a very high quality item with precision engineering, and MPC-HC is about that as well, just older and past it's prime. (There was a disagreement and a fork years ago, the "brains of the bunch" or innovators went with MPC-BE, MPC-HE has since moved much more slowly and been overtaken by MPC-HC, though they are still friend projects and help each other out giving code). It's a rough comparison, I know. I can't speak for others as I haven't spent enough time with them to really assess them. That's what happens when you're satisfied. tongue.gif

And one more thing about VLC. Everybody who says they use it says it like this "Oh I just use VLC, it's easy". or "VLC plays most things so I use it". or even "what else do you use." The theme here is ignorance. Most VLC users use it because they don't know better. Many, many years year ago I did as well. But after seeing comparisin photos like the ones above I realized there was a much better way. Next stop was MPC-HC and then when I actually heard about it, MPC-BE. Once you understand more about the history of the two players you'll pick MPC-BE.

@MonarchX You see that is exactly why we still need codec packs. The fact that it must be explained in such detail that it becomes a GUIDE is the problem. You are correct about the issues codec packs cause. Shark007 is FULLY aware of exactly this and his manifesto states that he uses only the bare minimum to complete the job correctly, just as you are doing. I wouldn't be surprised if the end result was very similar to your methods but included some additional codecs for obscure formats and alternate playback methods.

EDIT:His codecs aren't all "installed" on top of each other though. First there's filters like LAV, Gabest, FFDShow, etc. all put into one installer, then some additional single codecs to cover anything mussed without overlapping. There is a control panel where you switch between what you cannot use at the same time. Look: (Don't mind the theme with his horrid UI, that's the one downside)


By default that's at LAV, but I have to switch it to FFDShow to use SVP. When you switch one is made active and the other disabled. There's a list of active and disabled codecs in windows, this toggles them. When it uninstalls it puts everything back EXACTLY how it was. There is NO BREAKAGE with any other program EVER.

I guess in screenshots there's a small difference, but definitely not big enough difference for me to change my entire setup for it. I've been using codec packs since AngelPotion codecs, then I switched to K-Lite and finally CCCP. I'm not going to follow a lengthy guide to install 4 programs (PC-HC, LAV, ReClock, madVR) and configure them, vs just install CCCP and VLC. Most of my video files are not high quality enough for me to even see the difference. I think most people are in the same situation as me, that's why we use CCCP and VLC.

The biggest difference is with low-quality video files. Sharpening/interpolation aside, I can barely tell a difference between default MPC and MadVR with Blu-Ray rips, but it's like night and day with lower bitrate/poorly encoded videos.

VLC is its own codec pack. Unlike other video players, it can't use external renderers/codecs, which is why we all complain about it. So you don't need to instal CCCP with it.


Installing SVP4 installs all that for you like any other codec pack, and it takes like 3 minutes. It even has an auto-updated utility, which downloads updates without you ever having to open an browser. The only reason you would need anything else is if you're playing video on an extremely low-power setup, which needs basic CPU decoding or non-DXVA hardware decoding to get by.
Edited by brucethemoose - 10/31/15 at 6:51am
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post #102 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post

Standard high-end HTPC software setup consists of MPC-HC (32bit) + LAV (Splitter, Video, Audio) + ReClock (only works with 32bit players) + madVR and both VLC & CCCP pale in comparison to it. There is absolutely no reason to download Codec Packs today. Days since codecs could/would mess you your media file associations or whatever else are LOOONG GONE. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
MPC-HC - the simplest powerful player (a standard you can say), but you can also get PotPlayer, Kodi, or JRiver Media Center - all of these are good
LAV (Splitter, Audio, VIdeo) - the best filters that support the highest number of video and audio types and work wonderfully with MPC-HC, ReClock, and madVR
ReClock - needed if you want perfect synchronization of audio and video during playback of 23p/24p films, but works only with 32bit players, like MPC-HC 32bit. It can also be replaced with JRiver Media Player's Video Sync (supports 64bit), which is the only other way of perfectly synchronizing video and audio during 23p/24p playback
madVR - the world's most powerful video renderer, capable of improving image quality beyond any other renderer times 10000000^100000000m, but to get that awesome image quality you need a powerful GPU (GTX 970 at least)

To get the above to work together - install them all, then open MPC-HC directory and delete LAV folder (not necessary, but I advice it), then open MPC-HC - go to Options - Internal Filters and untick all Internal Filters. Then find External filters, and add each of the following - LAV Splitter (not Source Splitter), LAV Audio, LAV Video, ReClock, and madVR. Then make sure that "Preferred" is selected for each of them in MPC-HC External Filters options. Then go to MPC-HC Options - Playback - Output, select madVR for DirectShow Video and ReClock Audio Renderer for Audio Renderer. Then you have to set all the right settings for each, depending on your hardware and desires, but I won't be typing them up unless you really want to know, in which case you can just PM me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieboyeli View Post

@brucethemoose
I think we're talking about different things here, SVP can't play videos without FFDShow, if you don't switch to it, you get the error "Waiting for ffdshow video".
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
See this is exactly what I'm talking about. No other codec pack covers everything.

As for VLC. I must say it's fantastic IF YOU'RE BLIND. I can't even be polite about it. If you have eyes, you can clearly see the VLC's renderer sucks. It takes no more power for MPC-BE to do a massively better job, even without madVR. In fact it's more efficient. You should have less load than VLC. But I'm not just going to sit here without sourcing my work. : Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


LOOK AT THE BLUR AND HAZE vvv


Even this guy is saying it. VLC is not a good media player.


The fact that you can see such a massive difference after being downscaled from the original resolution and converted to jpg and yet again downscaled by OCN into a smaller resolution SPEAKS VOLUMES ABOUT HOW FREAKING AWFUL VLC'S RENDERER IS. I call it the Gray Haze Renderer, because that's what it does, put a disgusting gray haze over everything.

You can come back from these depths though. Repent and vow never to use VLC again and you shall be forgiven.

VLC is the equivalent of an obviously poor chinese knock off that only a fool would buy. MPC-BE is the equivalent of a very high quality item with precision engineering, and MPC-HC is about that as well, just older and past it's prime. (There was a disagreement and a fork years ago, the "brains of the bunch" or innovators went with MPC-BE, MPC-HE has since moved much more slowly and been overtaken by MPC-HC, though they are still friend projects and help each other out giving code). It's a rough comparison, I know. I can't speak for others as I haven't spent enough time with them to really assess them. That's what happens when you're satisfied. tongue.gif

And one more thing about VLC. Everybody who says they use it says it like this "Oh I just use VLC, it's easy". or "VLC plays most things so I use it". or even "what else do you use." The theme here is ignorance. Most VLC users use it because they don't know better. Many, many years year ago I did as well. But after seeing comparisin photos like the ones above I realized there was a much better way. Next stop was MPC-HC and then when I actually heard about it, MPC-BE. Once you understand more about the history of the two players you'll pick MPC-BE.

@MonarchX You see that is exactly why we still need codec packs. The fact that it must be explained in such detail that it becomes a GUIDE is the problem. You are correct about the issues codec packs cause. Shark007 is FULLY aware of exactly this and his manifesto states that he uses only the bare minimum to complete the job correctly, just as you are doing. I wouldn't be surprised if the end result was very similar to your methods but included some additional codecs for obscure formats and alternate playback methods.

EDIT:His codecs aren't all "installed" on top of each other though. First there's filters like LAV, Gabest, FFDShow, etc. all put into one installer, then some additional single codecs to cover anything mussed without overlapping. There is a control panel where you switch between what you cannot use at the same time. Look: (Don't mind the theme with his horrid UI, that's the one downside)


By default that's at LAV, but I have to switch it to FFDShow to use SVP. When you switch one is made active and the other disabled. There's a list of active and disabled codecs in windows, this toggles them. When it uninstalls it puts everything back EXACTLY how it was. There is NO BREAKAGE with any other program EVER.


Rep+ to both of you. thumb.gif

I've always used VLC because it's easy and it works.. tongue.gif But after what you guys said i'm going to give it a go.

Regarding the need for a powerful GPU though.. My PC doubles as a Plex server (that's okay to use right? tongue.gif ), so setting MPC-BE up won't impact my performance while i'm playing a game and someone else is streaming? It may be a stupid question, but some of that stuff sounds complicated.
post #103 of 155
Technically I don't need CCCP, but I prefer MPC's interface over VLC. So I only use VLC when a file doesn't play well on MPC (with CCCP codec).
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post #104 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by GorillaSceptre View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post

Standard high-end HTPC software setup consists of MPC-HC (32bit) + LAV (Splitter, Video, Audio) + ReClock (only works with 32bit players) + madVR and both VLC & CCCP pale in comparison to it. There is absolutely no reason to download Codec Packs today. Days since codecs could/would mess you your media file associations or whatever else are LOOONG GONE. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
MPC-HC - the simplest powerful player (a standard you can say), but you can also get PotPlayer, Kodi, or JRiver Media Center - all of these are good
LAV (Splitter, Audio, VIdeo) - the best filters that support the highest number of video and audio types and work wonderfully with MPC-HC, ReClock, and madVR
ReClock - needed if you want perfect synchronization of audio and video during playback of 23p/24p films, but works only with 32bit players, like MPC-HC 32bit. It can also be replaced with JRiver Media Player's Video Sync (supports 64bit), which is the only other way of perfectly synchronizing video and audio during 23p/24p playback
madVR - the world's most powerful video renderer, capable of improving image quality beyond any other renderer times 10000000^100000000m, but to get that awesome image quality you need a powerful GPU (GTX 970 at least)

To get the above to work together - install them all, then open MPC-HC directory and delete LAV folder (not necessary, but I advice it), then open MPC-HC - go to Options - Internal Filters and untick all Internal Filters. Then find External filters, and add each of the following - LAV Splitter (not Source Splitter), LAV Audio, LAV Video, ReClock, and madVR. Then make sure that "Preferred" is selected for each of them in MPC-HC External Filters options. Then go to MPC-HC Options - Playback - Output, select madVR for DirectShow Video and ReClock Audio Renderer for Audio Renderer. Then you have to set all the right settings for each, depending on your hardware and desires, but I won't be typing them up unless you really want to know, in which case you can just PM me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieboyeli View Post

@brucethemoose
I think we're talking about different things here, SVP can't play videos without FFDShow, if you don't switch to it, you get the error "Waiting for ffdshow video".
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
See this is exactly what I'm talking about. No other codec pack covers everything.

As for VLC. I must say it's fantastic IF YOU'RE BLIND. I can't even be polite about it. If you have eyes, you can clearly see the VLC's renderer sucks. It takes no more power for MPC-BE to do a massively better job, even without madVR. In fact it's more efficient. You should have less load than VLC. But I'm not just going to sit here without sourcing my work. : Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


LOOK AT THE BLUR AND HAZE vvv


Even this guy is saying it. VLC is not a good media player.


The fact that you can see such a massive difference after being downscaled from the original resolution and converted to jpg and yet again downscaled by OCN into a smaller resolution SPEAKS VOLUMES ABOUT HOW FREAKING AWFUL VLC'S RENDERER IS. I call it the Gray Haze Renderer, because that's what it does, put a disgusting gray haze over everything.

You can come back from these depths though. Repent and vow never to use VLC again and you shall be forgiven.

VLC is the equivalent of an obviously poor chinese knock off that only a fool would buy. MPC-BE is the equivalent of a very high quality item with precision engineering, and MPC-HC is about that as well, just older and past it's prime. (There was a disagreement and a fork years ago, the "brains of the bunch" or innovators went with MPC-BE, MPC-HE has since moved much more slowly and been overtaken by MPC-HC, though they are still friend projects and help each other out giving code). It's a rough comparison, I know. I can't speak for others as I haven't spent enough time with them to really assess them. That's what happens when you're satisfied. tongue.gif

And one more thing about VLC. Everybody who says they use it says it like this "Oh I just use VLC, it's easy". or "VLC plays most things so I use it". or even "what else do you use." The theme here is ignorance. Most VLC users use it because they don't know better. Many, many years year ago I did as well. But after seeing comparisin photos like the ones above I realized there was a much better way. Next stop was MPC-HC and then when I actually heard about it, MPC-BE. Once you understand more about the history of the two players you'll pick MPC-BE.

@MonarchX You see that is exactly why we still need codec packs. The fact that it must be explained in such detail that it becomes a GUIDE is the problem. You are correct about the issues codec packs cause. Shark007 is FULLY aware of exactly this and his manifesto states that he uses only the bare minimum to complete the job correctly, just as you are doing. I wouldn't be surprised if the end result was very similar to your methods but included some additional codecs for obscure formats and alternate playback methods.

EDIT:His codecs aren't all "installed" on top of each other though. First there's filters like LAV, Gabest, FFDShow, etc. all put into one installer, then some additional single codecs to cover anything mussed without overlapping. There is a control panel where you switch between what you cannot use at the same time. Look: (Don't mind the theme with his horrid UI, that's the one downside)



By default that's at LAV, but I have to switch it to FFDShow to use SVP. When you switch one is made active and the other disabled. There's a list of active and disabled codecs in windows, this toggles them. When it uninstalls it puts everything back EXACTLY how it was. There is NO BREAKAGE with any other program EVER.


Rep+ to both of you. thumb.gif

I've always used VLC because it's easy and it works.. tongue.gif But after what you guys said i'm going to give it a go.

Regarding the need for a powerful GPU though.. My PC doubles as a Plex server (that's okay to use right? tongue.gif ), so setting MPC-BE up won't impact my performance while i'm playing a game and someone else is streaming? It may be a stupid question, but some of that stuff sounds complicated.


MPC+MadVR hits the GPU hard, but not the CPU or the hardware encoding blocks. You'll be fine.

Just don't use SVP. If you want motion interpolation, try BlueSky or DmitriRender instead (though I'm not sure if they work with MadVR, I haven't tried either recently).
Edited by brucethemoose - 10/31/15 at 12:11pm
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post #105 of 155
I do not like MPC-BE... It is not as frequently updated as MPC-HC and I do not see the point of it. I think unlike MPC-HC, MPC-BE comes with some skin customization possibilities. It also comes with certain internal LAV and madVR features by default, but those features are limited and pointless if you're going to use full versions (and you should) of LAV Filters, ReClock, and madVR. Am I missing something? MPC-HC + LAV Filters + ReClock + madVR is THE Golden Standard. Another one is JRiver Media Center x64 + LAV Filters x64 + madVR x64 without any need for ReClock because JRiver Media Center comes with its own Video Sync feature that does exactly what ReClock does.
post #106 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethemoose View Post

MPC+MadVR hits the GPU hard, but not the CPU or the hardware encoding blocks. You'll be fine.

Just don't use SVP. If you want motion interpolation, try BlueSky or DmitriRender instead (though I'm not sure if they work with MadVR, I haven't tried either recently).
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post

I do not like MPC-BE... It is not as frequently updated as MPC-HC and I do not see the point of it. I think unlike MPC-HC, MPC-BE comes with some skin customization possibilities. It also comes with certain internal LAV and madVR features by default, but those features are limited and pointless if you're going to use full versions (and you should) of LAV Filters, ReClock, and madVR. Am I missing something? MPC-HC + LAV Filters + ReClock + madVR is THE Golden Standard. Another one is JRiver Media Center x64 + LAV Filters x64 + madVR x64 without any need for ReClock because JRiver Media Center comes with its own Video Sync feature that does exactly what ReClock does.

Between MPC-HC and the JRiver solution, which is better?

JRiver looks like it's a paid app, if the difference is noticeable i'll go for it. It just looks like a paid version of Plex, but obviously much more powerful.

Do you know if you can get MPC to work with/within Plex? Because i'm cheap, and i already have Plex set up, that would be optimal. biggrin.gif

Thanks. cheers.gif
post #107 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by GorillaSceptre View Post


Between MPC-HC and the JRiver solution, which is better?

JRiver looks like it's a paid app, if the difference is noticeable i'll go for it. It just looks like a paid version of Plex, but obviously much more powerful.

Do you know if you can get MPC to work with/within Plex? Because i'm cheap, and i already have Plex set up, that would be optimal. biggrin.gif

Thanks. cheers.gif

JRiver Media Center is a paid all-inclusive HTPC player and organizer. It organizes your video and audio library (creates title images for easy browsing), has different skins, connects to many devices, steams content, has more audio options, works with TV cards to watch TV on PC, and all that. It has a TON of options and it may take time to learn how to use it. It is a bit less responsive than MPC-HC, which is more-or-less instant.

MPC-HC is a very fast, but simple player with fewer options. It doesn't organize your library and you can create only simple temporary play-lists. I use MPC-HC because I find it easier, less confusing, and I organize all the files and folders using good old Windows Explorer.

Don't forget to use AnyDVD HD if you want to play legit DVD's and BD's with either MPC-HC or JRiver Media Center.
post #108 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post

JRiver Media Center is a paid all-inclusive HTPC player and organizer. It organizes your video and audio library (creates title images for easy browsing), has different skins, connects to many devices, steams content, has more audio options, works with TV cards to watch TV on PC, and all that. It has a TON of options and it may take time to learn how to use it. It is a bit less responsive than MPC-HC, which is more-or-less instant.

MPC-HC is a very fast, but simple player with fewer options. It doesn't organize your library and you can create only simple temporary play-lists. I use MPC-HC because I find it easier, less confusing, and I organize all the files and folders using good old Windows Explorer.

Don't forget to use AnyDVD HD if you want to play legit DVD's and BD's with either MPC-HC or JRiver Media Center.

Thanks man, appreciate it. thumb.gif
post #109 of 155
I've had a feeling for months the new omega driver will come with DX11 driver overhead reduction. It's the best way to get it out there to people who consider it a problem. We will see soon enough I guess
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Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post

I do not like MPC-BE... It is not as frequently updated as MPC-HC and I do not see the point of it. I think unlike MPC-HC, MPC-BE comes with some skin customization possibilities. It also comes with certain internal LAV and madVR features by default, but those features are limited and pointless if you're going to use full versions (and you should) of LAV Filters, ReClock, and madVR. Am I missing something? MPC-HC + LAV Filters + ReClock + madVR is THE Golden Standard. Another one is JRiver Media Center x64 + LAV Filters x64 + madVR x64 without any need for ReClock because JRiver Media Center comes with its own Video Sync feature that does exactly what ReClock does.
You are actually, and that is that everyone uses MPC-BE nightly builds. Though don't get it wrong by the name, these are anything but unstable.

Here: http://mpc-be.org/builds/

I'm not sure what you mean about the built in LAV and madVR. Shark007 offers an additional version with madVR integrated, but that's all I can think of.
Edited by cookieboyeli - 11/1/15 at 12:18am
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