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[KG/TT] AMD also rumored to be using GDDR5x on new 14nm GPUs (Updated) - Page 3

post #21 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcn77 View Post

Samsung says hbm is +53% more expensive, tsmc says hbm is 8 times more power efficient(7w & 56w). Hynix says HBM is the way forward power budget wise while differential io is at a lower efficiency grade. I think the end result is, we will hit power threshold issues more frequently with gpu software monitoring on gddr5x.

Thank you for actually adding something to the thread!

I also agree. Wasn't HBM the only reason AMD was able to decrease the power usage so drastically to allow so many more shaders in Fiji?

So if the same progression occurs, towards the end of 14/16 nm it will become obligatory to use HBM1/2 as power budget becomes more important (larger dies). This of course barring some new tech that takes over in the interim.
 
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post #22 of 76
Fiji was primarily due to cooling. Hot transistors waste more energy than cool transistors. Cap it at 65 degrees, and you can have two 7970s duct taped together running at about 225W.
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post #23 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post

Hey look at that. I think I remember certain people bashing Nvidia for this decision. I wonder if those same people will now bash AMD?

Anyway, this makes sense. HBM is going to be expensive for a while and hasn't shown any benefits as of yet to be worth putting on lower end cards and affecting margins.
8 times lower power, 19 times smaller memory footprint*, 44 times memory bandwidth per area, twice smaller gpu-memory total footprint, greater flexibility at every performance segment. The discrepancies couldn't be wider.
I think we will observe an economies of scale either in AMD's hands, or any other company - yet... the significance of AMD's generational leap could not have been more strategical.
PS: Oh! There seems to be a better term for that.
[The Domino Effect] * (Click to show)
Hmm, I calculate 44 times per bandwidth...

OK, crisis averted it was AMD's own statement on density.

Edited by mtcn77 - 10/29/15 at 9:36am
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post #24 of 76
They heard me complaining that HBM is too expensive for the underpowered Fury cards thumb.gif


Good decision. Raw performance/price is more important than niche cards who start to look good at surround / extremely high resolutions in Tri-/Quadfire
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post #25 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by zealord View Post

They heard me complaining that HBM is too expensive for the underpowered Fury cards thumb.gif


Good decision. Raw performance/price is more important than niche cards who start to look good at surround / extremely high resolutions in Tri-/Quadfire

It's a real shame, the Fury cards are not bad cards by any means, they're just horrendously priced, likely because of the cost of HBM.

The Fury X does have a nice watercooler, but it's priced way too close to the 980 Ti, the Fury's pricing isn't so bad, but the overclocking headroom on these cards compared to the 7970/50 and R9 290/X is appalling.
post #26 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by zealord View Post

They heard me complaining that HBM is too expensive for the underpowered Fury cards thumb.gif


Good decision. Raw performance/price is more important than niche cards who start to look good at surround / extremely high resolutions in Tri-/Quadfire

Underpowered. Good one. You do realize that, in terms of floating-point performance, a Fury X is the most powerful GPU ever created? (4096 shader cores * 2 FP32 ops / core) / cycle * 1.05*109 cycles / second = 8.6 TFLOPS. On the other hand a Titan X is "only" (3072 shader cores * 2 FP32 ops / core) / cycle * 1.075*109 cycles / second = 6.6 TFLOPS.

That said, that's theoretical performance only. In actuality they're much closer thanks to Maxwell having a better design and OpenCL being really terrible compared to CUDA. In games, AMD seems to have better crossfire scaling generally speaking, especially with three or four GPUs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopicClocker View Post

It's a real shame, the Fury cards are not bad cards by any means, they're just horrendously priced, likely because of the cost of HBM.

The Fury X does have a nice watercooler, but it's priced way too close to the 980 Ti, the Fury's pricing isn't so bad, but the overclocking headroom on these cards compared to the 7970/50 and R9 290/X is appalling.

If you aren't overclocking, then it really doesn't matter. They're effectively the same in terms of performance at higher resolutions. The problem there is a lack of VRAM for Fiji-based cards... I'd prefer for my $650 GPU to stick around a bit longer.

The Nano though is pretty phenomenal. Price might not be great, but it's understandable - this is a full Fiji core they could have slapped in a Fury X instead, and it's a highly binned part. You know what those are? Expensive. I like Haswell for this example. A Shark Bay i7-4910MQ is $570 while a desktop i7-4770K is $340. They are identical silicon dies yet one is two-thirds more expensive.
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post #27 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Underpowered. Good one. You do realize that, in terms of floating-point performance, a Fury X is the most powerful GPU ever created? (4096 shader cores * 2 FP32 ops / core) / cycle * 1.05*109 cycles / second = 8.6 TFLOPS. On the other hand a Titan X is "only" (3072 shader cores * 2 FP32 ops / core) / cycle * 1.075*109 cycles / second = 6.6 TFLOPS.

That said, that's theoretical performance only. In actuality they're much closer thanks to Maxwell having a better design and OpenCL being really terrible compared to CUDA. In games, AMD seems to have better crossfire scaling generally speaking, especially with three or four GPUs.
If you aren't overclocking, then it really doesn't matter. They're effectively the same in terms of performance at higher resolutions. The problem there is a lack of VRAM for Fiji-based cards... I'd prefer for my $650 GPU to stick around a bit longer.

The Nano though is pretty phenomenal. Price might not be great, but it's understandable - this is a full Fiji core they could have slapped in a Fury X instead, and it's a highly binned part. You know what those are? Expensive. I like Haswell for this example. A Shark Bay i7-4910MQ is $570 while a desktop i7-4770K is $340. They are identical silicon dies yet one is two-thirds more expensive.


And yet I would rather have a 980 Ti. I am a consumer. I do care for how much a product cost in relation to the performance. That is the priority for me.

Why would I buy a Fury X, Fury or Nano if I can get a 980 Ti for the same money and the 980 Ti even overclocks like a champ.
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post #28 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcn77 View Post

Samsung says hbm is +53% more expensive, tsmc says hbm is 8 times more power efficient(7w & 56w). Hynix says HBM is the way forward power budget wise while differential io is at a lower efficiency grade. I think the end result is, we will hit power threshold issues more frequently with gpu software monitoring on gddr5x.

Even if it's 53% more expensive than GDDR5 there are savings to be made on the OEM side of things : less complex PCBs and probably some savings on cooling. I think both AMD and Nvidia would go for HBM if the supply is secure.
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post #29 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by zealord View Post

And yet I would rather have a 980 Ti. I am a consumer. I do care for how much a product cost in relation to the performance. That is the priority for me.

Why would I buy a Fury X, Fury or Nano if I can get a 980 Ti for the same money and the 980 Ti even overclocks like a champ.

Truth!
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post #30 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopicClocker View Post

It's a real shame, the Fury cards are not bad cards by any means, they're just horrendously priced, likely because of the cost of HBM.

The Fury X does have a nice watercooler, but it's priced way too close to the 980 Ti, the Fury's pricing isn't so bad, but the overclocking headroom on these cards compared to the 7970/50 and R9 290/X is appalling.

Yeah they could be great cards for 499$ to go Crossfire. In that regard they really shine. The scaling is great.

But AMD can't go to 499$ because the cards are too expensive for them and the supply is limited anyways. (Well in Europe they are in stock everywhere basically).
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