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Fury X is now just as fast as GTX 980Ti in 1080p/1440p and faster in 4K - Page 16

post #151 of 165
1. I'm sick of this "people play games not benchmarks" crap. What is the basis for this? If a card gets a certain score in a benchmark, you can expect a certain level of performance from it in gaming. 3dmark even has various numbers from their own internal tests giving scores for you to compare to, such as "Low End Laptop", "4K Gaming PC" and so on. I'm an enthusiast benchmarker and pretty highly ranked on HWBOT. You give me a Fire Strike score, I can probably tell you what games it will run and what resolution is appropriate. The game performance generally reflects the benchmark performance and vice versa. rolleyes.gif

2. As much as I love AMD and want them to succeed, unfortunately the Fury X (and maybe the Fury) are failures. Improved benchmark scores matter little when everyone looking to buy a card in that tier already likely has a 980 or 980ti. I would never recommend the Fury X over the 980ti if someone has the money for it because of one simple fact: 64 ROPs vs 96 ROPs. This is why the 980ti can blow away the Fury X at lower resolutions, it has a much greater pixel fill rate. The Fury X should have had 128 ROPs, or perhaps 96 to at least be competitive with the 980ti. On top of that, the Fury X is an abysmal overclocker. This means you can't really squeeze any extra performance out of it. Stock to stock, the 980ti is already faster than the Fury X due to ROPs as stated. But it also overclocks +300-400mhz and once you do that, it surpasses the Fury X, which can't be overclocked to keep up. On top of that, it seems like nearly every other game has Nvidia GameWorks™ which gimps pretty much every major release on AMD cards. I don't really remember the last time a game was optimized for AMD, but I don't buy and play every game that comes out. It seems like maybe Tomb Raider (2013) and Sleeping Dogs (2012?) are the last games I remember that actually ran better on AMD.

If I'm going to spend my money on two $600 cards this year (or possibly next), I want a card that isn't gimped in almost every game and that actually overclocks well. I've used AMD exclusively since the 4670, and then a 6870 and I'm tired of this crap. (Btw, I was lucky to overclock the core on the 6870 by a measly 100mhz- situation hasn't changed!) I'm about the biggest AMD fanboy and diehard that you'll meet but even I'm convinced the ship is sinking fast, and turds like the Fury X do nothing to help the cause. Strongly considering spending my money on Team Green this time. I already ditched my AMD processor for Intel after being sick of getting trash benchmark scores and unexplainable huge FPS dips in nearly every game. (How's Nvidia Surround nowadays?)
Edited by neurotix - 2/10/16 at 1:50am
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post #152 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by neurotix View Post

1. I'm sick of this "people play games not benchmarks" crap. What is the basis for this? If a card gets a certain score in a benchmark, you can expect a certain level of performance from it in gaming. 3dmark even has various numbers from their own internal tests giving scores for you to compare to, such as "Low End Laptop", "4K Gaming PC" and so on. I'm an enthusiast benchmarker and pretty highly ranked on HWBOT. You give me a Fire Strike score, I can probably tell you what games it will run and what resolution is appropriate. The game performance generally reflects the benchmark performance and vice versa. rolleyes.gif

2. As much as I love AMD and want them to succeed, unfortunately the Fury X (and maybe the Fury) are failures. Improved benchmark scores matter little when everyone looking to buy a card in that tier already likely has a 980 or 980ti. I would never recommend the Fury X over the 980ti if someone has the money for it because of one simple fact: 64 ROPs vs 96 ROPs. This is why the 980ti can blow away the Fury X at lower resolutions, it has a much greater pixel fill rate. The Fury X should have had 128 ROPs, or perhaps 96 to at least be competitive with the 980ti. On top of that, the Fury X is an abysmal overclocker. This means you can't really squeeze any extra performance out of it. Stock to stock, the 980ti is already faster than the Fury X due to ROPs as stated. But it also overclocks +300-400mhz and once you do that, it surpasses the Fury X, which can't be overclocked to keep up. On top of that, it seems like nearly every other game has Nvidia GameWorks™ which gimps pretty much every major release on AMD cards. I don't really remember the last time a game was optimized for AMD, but I don't buy and play every game that comes out. It seems like maybe Tomb Raider (2013) and Sleeping Dogs (2012?) are the last games I remember that actually ran better on AMD.

If I'm going to spend my money on two $600 cards this year (or possibly next), I want a card that isn't gimped in almost every game and that actually overclocks well. I've used AMD exclusively since the 4670, and then a 6870 and I'm tired of this crap. (Btw, I was lucky to overclock the core on the 6870 by a measly 100mhz- situation hasn't changed!) I'm about the biggest AMD fanboy and diehard that you'll meet but even I'm convinced the ship is sinking fast, and turds like the Fury X do nothing to help the cause. Strongly considering spending my money on Team Green this time. I already ditched my AMD processor for Intel after being sick of getting trash benchmark scores and unexplainable huge FPS dips in nearly every game. (How's Nvidia Surround nowadays?)

Very much agree with your first point but in your 2nd point mentioning AMD cards never been good at overclocking is wrong tbh.

My 4890 went from 850mhz to 1010mhz
My 5870 went from 850mhz to 1050mhz
My 260x went from 1050mhz to 1335mhz (and 2075mhz on memory !)
My 270x went from 1000mhz to 1362mhz
My 7950 went from 860mhz to 1125mhz
My 290x went from 1000mhz to 1220mhz

Whats so bad about this, seem like pretty good overclocks to me (260x and 270x even more then good)
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post #153 of 165
Well,I might agree with @neurotix. I've seen those tests, I was thinking that it's great for AMD to show a Fury X able to beat a 980 Ti, but...

All of this is useless: the enthusiast crowd is irrealistically drooling on the next GPU generation, and has already bought a 980 (I did) or a 980 ti, because it was better when it had to - when you want to upgrade your PC.

You can't say "Hey, hopefully our team showed it might be best after all" almost 1 year after they failed to win the competition. Like with any company that has tried to delivered some products but failed in a row and couldn't deliver its promises, I don't think AMD will win back the trust of people that unfortunately count - I mean the investors. From a financial point of view (a.k.a as someone too poor to invest), I wouldn't care less about that news.

At least Fury X owners are happy now 😀
     
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post #154 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farih View Post

Very much agree with your first point but in your 2nd point mentioning AMD cards never been good at overclocking is wrong tbh.

My 4890 went from 850mhz to 1010mhz
My 5870 went from 850mhz to 1050mhz
My 260x went from 1050mhz to 1335mhz (and 2075mhz on memory !)
My 270x went from 1000mhz to 1362mhz
My 7950 went from 860mhz to 1125mhz
My 290x went from 1000mhz to 1220mhz

Whats so bad about this, seem like pretty good overclocks to me (260x and 270x even more then good)

You have better clocking cards than I've had.

The best I've gotten is my "golden" 270X that did 1270mhz (84% ASIC). All others did around 1200mhz tops, and even then, a lot weren't stable at all. (E.g. my 290s- top card would do 1200, bottom had to be at 1150.)

This isn't the first time I've seen you post in response to me claiming quite high clock speeds on AMD cards. That's fine that you do, but please realize it isn't the general rule. Most people are lucky to even get 1200mhz on most AMD cards even with the voltage slider maxed without seeing artifacts or crashing. I've even seen some unfortunate people who got 290s that couldn't even do 1150mhz in the 290 thread and various other places on the forum.

GCN overclocks much better in general than older cards (e.g. my 6870 and the 4870x2 I had). However, nobody can deny that the Fury X (and the Fury??) overclock like crap. Worse, they were advertised as being "excellent overclockers" in a post-Maxwell world.

I was basically comparing the overclockability of newer GCN cards (esp. Fury X) to that of Maxwell, which overclocks extraordinarily well, as we all likely know.

I have fun overclocking my cards, I have bought and resold AMD cards just to bench them, and I love running 3D benches on AMD cards, but truth be told, AMD cards don't overclock worth a damn. It's kinda always been this way. I recall people hitting 1300mhz+ easily on 680s, 770s and 780s, even on air. If I'm forking out < $500 for a card, I want it to overclock. Not just 50, 100 or 150mhz. That's what we all want, right? AMD failed to deliver this with the Fury X. Worse, the 980ti overclocks so damn well that it surpasses the Fury X. Just look at the graphs at the beginning of this thread and look at the 980ti Lightning as compared to the Fury X (According to Newegg the Lightning boosts to 1304mhz, so I assume that's the speed it was at in the graphs at the beginning, where it surpasses the Fury X by nearly 20%. What happens if it's at 1500mhz but the Fury X is still at 1050mhz or whatever because you can't overclock it?)
Edited by neurotix - 2/10/16 at 2:34am
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post #155 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by neurotix View Post

You have better clocking cards than I've had.

The best I've gotten is my "golden" 270X that did 1270mhz (84% ASIC). All others did around 1200mhz tops, and even then, a lot weren't stable at all. (E.g. my 290s- top card would do 1200, bottom had to be at 1150.)

This isn't the first time I've seen you post in response to me claiming quite high clock speeds on AMD cards. That's fine that you do, but please realize it isn't the general rule. Most people are lucky to even get 1200mhz on most AMD cards even with the voltage slider maxed without seeing artifacts or crashing. I've even seen some unfortunate people who got 290s that couldn't even do 1150mhz in the 290 thread and various other places on the forum.

GCN overclocks much better in general than older cards (e.g. my 6870 and the 4870x2 I had). However, nobody can deny that the Fury X (and the Fury??) overclock like crap. Worse, they were advertised as being "excellent overclockers" in a post-Maxwell world.

I was basically comparing the overclockability of newer GCN cards (esp. Fury X) to that of Maxwell, which overclocks extraordinarily well, as we all likely know.

I have fun overclocking my cards, I have bought and resold AMD cards just to bench them, and I love running 3D benches on AMD cards, but truth be told, AMD cards don't overclock worth a damn. It's kinda always been this way. I recall people hitting 1300mhz+ easily on 680s, 770s and 780s, even on air. If I'm forking out < $500 for a card, I want it to overclock. Not just 50, 100 or 150mhz. That's what we all want, right? AMD failed to deliver this with the Fury X. Worse, the 980ti overclocks so damn well that it surpasses the Fury X. Just look at the graphs at the beginning of this thread and look at the 980ti Lightning as compared to the Fury X (According to Newegg the Lightning boosts to 1304mhz, so I assume that's the speed it was at in the graphs at the beginning, where it surpasses the Fury X by nearly 20%. What happens if it's at 1500mhz but the Fury X is still at 1050mhz or whatever because you can't overclock it?)

Tbh, i think most people dont know how to get the max out of there cards.
I almost always get numbers like that (sometimes you buy a lemon)

Since this topic is now AMD i quote my high AMD overclocks but with Nvidia cards its no different for me really, i managed high overclocks on them to.

I think the difference is most people just move sliders and dont get into adjusting voltage and/or bios modding wich is key to get high overclocks IMO.

With the Fury cards you seem to be right though, they dont seem to overclock nicely at all but thats just 1 line of cards in there history for me all the way back to 3xxx series, i wasnt much of an overclocker before that frown.gif

Another point with how people compare OC's on GPU's nowdays:
they say a 290x clocks crappy compared to say a 970 but people then look at base clocks while 1 of the cards (the 970) has a boost.
When you look at stock boost speed first and then look at you overclocked boost those overclocks are not that high at all.

A 970 boost wel over 1300mhz stock, some even close to 1400mhz
Lets take the middle(1350mhz), 1350mhz to a overclock of 1550mhz isnt all that big then
A 390x at 1050mhz to 1200mhz is just as big as an overclock as 970 at 1350mhz to 1550mhz.

But yeah, the Fury line seems to be poor overclockers, i can agree on that smile.gif

My poorest clocker atm is my 960 ( I dont have a Fury yet)
Stock boost 1342mhz, max overclock boost 1512mhz frown.gif
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post #156 of 165
Were your cards on water?

I do all my benching using air cooling on my cards, and realistically, there are a TON of gamers out there that just want to play games and don't water cool their cards.

This could explain the difference.

Also, I looked you up on HWBOT and you have 0 points. If you're getting such high OCs why don't you make submissions there?

I mean, considering I have 30 gold cups on HWBOT I kinda think I know what I'm doing, also having been overclocking AMD cards since 2008 and submitting benches to HWBOT since 2011.

Further, of course I mess with BIOS and adjust voltage rolleyes.gif What are you trying to imply? Not everyone is a novice or an idiot. My HWBOT profile speaks for itself. And again, I'll state that AMD cards (on air) overclock like crap, and Nvidia has always had great overclockers.

All the rest, I agree with. Unfortunately, the Fury X is a bad overclocker. This is why the 980ti really pulls ahead of it.
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post #157 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by neurotix View Post

Were your cards on water?

I do all my benching using air cooling on my cards, and realistically, there are a TON of gamers out there that just want to play games and don't water cool their cards.

This could explain the difference.

Also, I looked you up on HWBOT and you have 0 points. If you're getting such high OCs why don't you make submissions there?

I mean, considering I have 30 gold cups on HWBOT I kinda think I know what I'm doing, also having been overclocking AMD cards since 2008 and submitting benches to HWBOT since 2011.

Further, of course I mess with BIOS and adjust voltage rolleyes.gif What are you trying to imply? Not everyone is a novice or an idiot. My HWBOT profile speaks for itself.

All the rest, I agree with. Unfortunately, the Fury X is a bad overclocker. This is why the 980ti really pulls ahead of it.

Its all hobby no HWbot needed really but.... maybe i should someday though....
And all these cards are air cooled

I always try to adjust the BIOS on GPU's wich helps alot in overclocking allthough sometimes hardware on the card can be limiting to like with my 960, i just cant seem to properly overvolt it.

I have results stored on 3Dmark but many benches show 0mhz core and 0mhz memory frown.gif
Do have a few though.
This is the 270x


This the 260x


Rest of the OC's i mentioned are pretty common IMO.


Also, i didnt mean with "most people just moving sliders" that you have no knowledge, its targetted in general not you in person.
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post #158 of 165
Here's my 270X: http://hwbot.org/submission/2599416_neurotix_3dmark11___performance_radeon_r9_270x_10048_marks

1270mhz, only 400 points lower than yours.

That's off topic though, we should wrap it up.

I'm just gonna state again that I really think your overclocks for AMD are basically extremely lucky and uncommon.

I've only had 1 GCN card out of probably 10 I've tested and benched that could pass benches above 1250mhz. And this was often after messing with BIOS and changing the voltage to the max. mad.gif

Again, I see a ton of people in the 280X/270X club, Tonga club, 290X club, and 7970 club and most people on air coolers are lucky to exceed 1200mhz regardless of the card. I've followed some of those threads for years now and it's extremely uncommon to see AMD cards at 1300mhz and above. I can basically count the number of times I've seen benches passed at those speeds on air on one hand among all the clubs. And if you don't believe me, go ask the guys in the 280X/270X owners club about common overclocks on air. They know me. I've posted in the thread since it was made.

Anyway, regards to you, we should probably get back on track discussing the Fury X and how it performs (or fails to perform) against the 980ti. smile.gif

EDIT: Hell, you can even look at the owners list in the original post for some of these cards and tell me how many people stated their overclocks were over 1200mhz, let alone 1300mhz. I certainly see a lot of 1120s, 1150s, etc.
Edited by neurotix - 2/10/16 at 3:24am
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post #159 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by neurotix View Post

Here's my 270X: http://hwbot.org/submission/2599416_neurotix_3dmark11___performance_radeon_r9_270x_10048_marks

1270mhz, only 400 points lower than yours.

That's off topic though, we should wrap it up.

I'm just gonna state again that I really think your overclocks for AMD are basically extremely lucky and uncommon.

I've only had 1 GCN card out of probably 10 I've tested and benched that could pass benches above 1250mhz. And this was often after messing with BIOS and changing the voltage to the max. mad.gif

Again, I see a ton of people in the 280X/270X club, Tonga club, 290X club, and 7970 club and most people on air coolers are lucky to exceed 1200mhz regardless of the card. I've followed some of those threads for years now and it's extremely uncommon to see AMD cards at 1300mhz and above. I can basically count the number of times I've seen benches passed at those speeds on air on one hand among all the clubs. And if you don't believe me, go ask the guys in the 280X/270X owners club about common overclocks on air. They know me. I've posted in the thread since it was made.

Anyway, regards to you, we should probably get back on track discussing the Fury X and how it performs (or fails to perform) against the 980ti. smile.gif

You should not be hammering on frequency
What does it matter ?
Nothing, its the performance that counts
If 1 cards beats the other and has a lower frequency then ?

like i said a 390x at 1050mhz overclocked to 1200mhz is just a big of an overclock as a 970 from 1350mhz to 1550mhz.
On average the 390x is about 10% faster then a 970 so what does frequency say then ?

Stock 7970 is 1000mhz, to 1200mhz is 20% OC...
a 20% OC on a 970 would make a boost of 1620mhz, this is more uncommen then a 7970 at 1200mhz...
Its not about frequency but about max overclocks in percantage and even more important the percentage in gained performance.
If i had a new card here that performs better then any card in world today who cares if it runs 800mhz or 2000mhz ?

Hope i explained it wright.....

And back on topic, yes i still would get a 980ti over a Fury-X any day.
Even if i got one for free i would prolly sell it and try and get a 980ti.
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19inch phillips tft generic Bequiet 300Watt Fratal Design Core 
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microsoft none 
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post #160 of 165
I know what you mean. This is why my 290s at 1150mhz were as fast as 970s at 1500mhz+. (I can back this up if needed.) Unfortunately they're both gone now and I miss them frown.gif

But again, we should probably stop and get back on topic.
Big Red
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 4790k delid 5ghz ASUS ROG Maximus VI Hero BIOS 1603 SAPPHIRE R9 Fury NITRO 1125/550mhz SAPPHIRE R9 Fury NITRO 1125/550mhz 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
8GB G.SKILL TridentX 2666mhz 10-12-12-31 2T 1.7v Samsung 840 Evo 256GB SATA 3 2TB WD Black 7200rpm SATA 3 (Games) 4TB WD Blue 5400rpm SATA 3 (Media) 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Lite-on 20x DVD-RW/BD-ROM Corsair H100i V2 + PK-3 Nano Corsair SP120s red LED (radiator) Corsair SP140 red LED 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1 3x ASUS VC239H IPS Slim Bezel Eyefinity Ducky DK-1008 "Overclock.net Edition" w/ dampen... Cooler Master V1000 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair 780T (Black- painted red fan grills) ZELOTES T-90 Corsair Polaris Creative SupremeFX onboard 
OtherOtherOtherOther
Logitech + Turtle Beach amp Custom acrylic PSU cover "Big Red" (v1tech) Custom acrylic drive cage cover "Sapphire Nitro... Merax Racing Chair 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-7600k 4.7ghz 1.26v ASUS ROG Z270H Strix Sapphire R9 380X Nitro 1200/1500mhz G.skill Ripjaws4 DDR4-3000 CAS15 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital Caviar Blue 320gb Samsung 850 Evo 256gb Corsair H60 Win10 Home 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2x ASUS V236H 1080p Corsair K70 Lux Blue LED Cherry MX Blue OCZ ModXStream Pro 500w Thermaltake Core V71 
MouseMouse Pad
Cooler Master Thermaltake GAMMA 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 stock ASUS ROG Crosshair V Formula Sapphire R5 230 G.skill TridentX DDR3 2400mhz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
WD Caviar Blue Lite On DVD-RW Cooler Master TX3 Corsair SP120 Exhaust 
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Win7 Ultimate X64 ASUS V236H 1080p 23" OCZ ModXStream Pro 500W Corsair C70 
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Big Red
(24 items)
 
Big Blue?
(14 items)
 
Green
(12 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 4790k delid 5ghz ASUS ROG Maximus VI Hero BIOS 1603 SAPPHIRE R9 Fury NITRO 1125/550mhz SAPPHIRE R9 Fury NITRO 1125/550mhz 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
8GB G.SKILL TridentX 2666mhz 10-12-12-31 2T 1.7v Samsung 840 Evo 256GB SATA 3 2TB WD Black 7200rpm SATA 3 (Games) 4TB WD Blue 5400rpm SATA 3 (Media) 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Lite-on 20x DVD-RW/BD-ROM Corsair H100i V2 + PK-3 Nano Corsair SP120s red LED (radiator) Corsair SP140 red LED 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1 3x ASUS VC239H IPS Slim Bezel Eyefinity Ducky DK-1008 "Overclock.net Edition" w/ dampen... Cooler Master V1000 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair 780T (Black- painted red fan grills) ZELOTES T-90 Corsair Polaris Creative SupremeFX onboard 
OtherOtherOtherOther
Logitech + Turtle Beach amp Custom acrylic PSU cover "Big Red" (v1tech) Custom acrylic drive cage cover "Sapphire Nitro... Merax Racing Chair 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-7600k 4.7ghz 1.26v ASUS ROG Z270H Strix Sapphire R9 380X Nitro 1200/1500mhz G.skill Ripjaws4 DDR4-3000 CAS15 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital Caviar Blue 320gb Samsung 850 Evo 256gb Corsair H60 Win10 Home 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2x ASUS V236H 1080p Corsair K70 Lux Blue LED Cherry MX Blue OCZ ModXStream Pro 500w Thermaltake Core V71 
MouseMouse Pad
Cooler Master Thermaltake GAMMA 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 stock ASUS ROG Crosshair V Formula Sapphire R5 230 G.skill TridentX DDR3 2400mhz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
WD Caviar Blue Lite On DVD-RW Cooler Master TX3 Corsair SP120 Exhaust 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Win7 Ultimate X64 ASUS V236H 1080p 23" OCZ ModXStream Pro 500W Corsair C70 
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