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[TheTelegraph] Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakable encryption under new laws - Page 11

post #101 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by b.walker36 View Post

Even if my opinion would mean we all loose a little privacy it does not excuse these type of responses.

The constitution and privacy are not black and white. The internet is a public place and I believe that you give up certain expectations of privacy when you use it. Just as a celebrity does, which is why the media is not constantly thrown in jail. Same as in a locker room. There is plenty of precedent in where courts have upheld this idea (not necessarily with the internet). I personally don't believe that our constitutional rights are stepped on by collecting but not reviewing information. Is it abused probably, is the law perfect absolutely not and there needs to be more transparency and oversight but I believe the ability to collect information that disappears once sent is a good thing. The constitution has never been updated to properly reflect the virtual world.

I have already agreed with other users that I'm not so sure about this because it would technically put peoples data at risk to things outside the law.

It's not just privacy but the rule of law the country was founded on. We have a Constitution for a reason, to limit the power and scope of government. Contrary to what you may believe, the Constitution was written to protect the innocent, not the guilty.


How does it not violate the Constitution?
Quote:
The Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.



How is a private email I send to you any different than a written letter? How is a private conversation over a landline phone any different than a private conversation on a cell phone or skype? They are doing this because now they have the technology to circumvent the warrant process, when 20 years ago they could only get the info from the phone companies, only after presenting them with a warrant.
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post #102 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by KYKYLLIKA View Post

You can first ban encryption with keys longer than 2048 bit. Then a year later, keys longer than 2047 bit, then 2046 bit. It’s a long road, but literally bit-by-bit.

I'm hoping you are joking because that's not how bits scale due to how computers function at their most basic level.

They are always to the power of 2 - i.e. 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048.


Also, why has this thread about a UK proposed bill been hijacked by tin hat Americans? This has nothing to do with your constitution.
Edited by Kommanche - 11/5/15 at 5:25am
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post #103 of 111
all this will do is make it where programmers will make new private encryption programs so when you jailbreak/hack your phone you will be able to encrypt it with 3rd party software.

this will literally accomplish nothing, what a waste of time. hahaha
post #104 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommanche View Post


I'm hoping you are joking because that's not how bits scale due to how computers function at their most basic level.

They are always to the power of 2 - i.e. 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048.


Also, why has this thread about a UK proposed bill been hijacked by tin hat Americans? This has nothing to do with your constitution.

Of course, joking, but not about key length. It’s a bit more complicated than that.

Look at a bit: it’s either 0 or 1. Bits do traditionally come in pairs, but they don't have to: a bit can technically be implemented in a single-bit device, such as a single space on a paper ribbon (can be used in a Turing machine). It’s just impractical. Bits come in pairs for a reason: it’s convenient. Still, you can make 9 bits of memory in a 3×3 magnetic core memory array. In modern day computer parts, bits do not come so much in a power of two as they come in a multiple of a power of two, such as 3GiB of ram (found on some GPUs), which is 25 769 803 776 bits or 234.5849625…, not exactly a perfect power of two. Instead 3GiB of memory is 233 * 3 bits of memory. Long story short, it is data storage that traditionally comes in quantities which closely involve a power of two.

Information itself can come in various sizes, such as a single bit of information (is the light on or off?) or a string that is three chars long (3 bytes, also 24 bits, not a power of 2). This paper discusses the cracking of an RSA modulus that is 768 bits long (29.58496250…) but also discusses moduli of length 663 bits and 1039 bits. The latter is not just a non-power of two, but is also an uneven number.
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post #105 of 111
The cases mentioned, related to non power of two aligned graphics cards, is not related to bit values but instead a restriction in the symbol space due to other HW resources and adding that extra bit of potential memory would just cause performance issues.

As an example we have nVidias ruckus with the 500MB of memory on some of their cards, the card came with 4GiB of memory but anyone using the final 500MB would get severe performance losses and nVidia went through a PR nightmare.

Also 3 bytes=24 bits = 2^24 and definitely a power of two
3x3 memory array= 2^9 also a power of two

Any use of a number of bits (bit being a state of 0 or 1) will result in a value that is a power of two.

Going back to Kommanche's statement; the 2048 with regards to the cryptography key length is actual bit length to 2048 is actually a reference to 2^2048 potential symbols, so reducing it downwards to 2047 and onward is logically correct.
Edited by eneq - 11/5/15 at 9:07am
post #106 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by eneq View Post

Any bit reduction halves the available symbol space, the cases you list are circumstantial and caused by other factors (3GiB on GPUs are usually an efficiency issues related to other HW resources that adding that final bit of memory to make it power of two aligned would cause performance issues, yet again has nothing todo with the value of a bit).

When reducing the computation entities from 2048 to 2047 etc. or as with the other cases you list, it has nothing todo with the "bit" but instead of the size of the symbol space the bit adds to.

All in all your post seems to be a write up to excuse a mistake you make, don't be afraid of mistakes. Own them!

Eeh, sorry, I don't follow. Suppose we have RSA key with 768 bit length. It is equivalent to any key between 513 and 1024? “the size of the symbol space the bit adds to” is not the “size” or extent of a key’s complexity? I always thought encryption keys are more like bit streams and you can set arbitrary size on them? I’m obviously lacking some knowledge.
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post #107 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by KYKYLLIKA View Post

Eeh, sorry, I don't follow. Suppose we have RSA key with 768 bit length. It is equivalent to any key between 513 and 1024? “the size of the symbol space the bit adds to” is not the “size” or extent of a key’s complexity? I always thought encryption keys are more like bit streams and you can set arbitrary size on them? I’m obviously lacking some knowledge.

Sorry for my earlier post I originally thought I commented on Kommanches post and got your two mixed up, realized my mistake when I reread the post and updated it.

You are quite correct, the "number" associated with a cryptographic key is the length of the bit pattern of the key, the reason why we went from 1024 to 2048 is based on other factors and more related to the cryptographic security of the algorithm itself. There were some research into symmetric keys that produces a bit length that was considered safe and another study that mapped that key length to equivalent size requirement for the asymmetric algorithms.

Thats why you normally see "safe" key lengths for AES and DES being 256 bits and lower whereas assymetric keys should be 2048
post #108 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by b.walker36 View Post

Even if my opinion would mean we all loose a little privacy it does not excuse these type of responses....


LOL, you amuse son. The constitution specifically protects these type of responses. If you don't like the constitution then leave. Goto a nationalist dictatorship as that seems to be your preferred Government.
post #109 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hueristic View Post

LOL, you amuse son. The constitution specifically protects these type of responses. If you don't like the constitution then leave. Goto a nationalist dictatorship as that seems to be your preferred Government.

Protect and excuse are two completely different things. The ignorance of your attempt is astounding.
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post #110 of 111
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Originally Posted by daviejams View Post

That will never get through parliament I would not have thought

If I were google I'd tell them to bugger off and mind their own business too
Google tried that here and now the government has direct access to ALL information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b.walker36 View Post

Will never understand why you people can't debate respectfully. You basically just called me in ignorant sheep, and I don't appreciate that. I don't agree with everything the government does but I live in reality where some sacrifices have to be made, there is no perfect system ever.

No matter what we have as a government people will corrupt it in one way or another, no one is perfect. I just prefer to live on the plane of reality where I'm okay with a government doing something that could be abused in order to protect the masses.
We're going to have to agree to disagree. I firmly believe the government has NO right to violate ones privacy just for the sake of "national security". It's hog wash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b.walker36 View Post

Even if my opinion would mean we all loose a little privacy it does not excuse these type of responses.

The constitution and privacy are not black and white. The internet is a public place and I believe that you give up certain expectations of privacy when you use it. Just as a celebrity does, which is why the media is not constantly thrown in jail. Same as in a locker room. There is plenty of precedent in where courts have upheld this idea (not necessarily with the internet). I personally don't believe that our constitutional rights are stepped on by collecting but not reviewing information. Is it abused probably, is the law perfect absolutely not and there needs to be more transparency and oversight but I believe the ability to collect information that disappears once sent is a good thing. The constitution has never been updated to properly reflect the virtual world.

I have already agreed with other users that I'm not so sure about this because it would technically put peoples data at risk to things outside the law.
Not the same thing because the rule of law applies differently to a person of public stature like a politician, actor, athlete.
Edited by jdstock76 - 11/5/15 at 12:38pm
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