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[TheTelegraph] Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakable encryption under new laws - Page 3

post #21 of 111
Yes, you are either "with us", or against us.
And if you are with us, you should have no secrets from us.

That ofc includes citizens, non citizens, foreign governments etc - you know, the entities that could face prison, death or even war if caught spying on US Gov / Agenies etc, but the US is spying upon routinely.

I've said it before, and I will say it again: if you are really believing in the freedom of speech and rights of privacy, you should do it out of principal for all human beings. Not just for people in your country.
I am sick of ppl repeating "spying on american citizens" as if this is what grants you special human rights. A person, is a person.
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post #22 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFTW View Post

So BBM should be fine right? ha!

If this is just typical social places and search based stuff thats fine in my book, them places snoop through anything anyway.

BBM has a "Private Chat" feature which is a 1 to 1, encrypted, self destructing, no ID method of communicating. No user pictures, names, or ID's are listed or stored on either side (just "Private Chat"), and if either party goes inactive for 60 seconds the conversation is wiped from both sides. Chats are not stored in any cloud, online, or locally on either device.

It is not free though, but comes as an additional $.99/mo "Privacy and Control" subscription which also includes timed messages and pictures, message retraction, and editing of sent messages.
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post #23 of 111
I'm torn on this issue. However, I don't like the idea of something being banned because it may be used for something bad. Gun Control advocates use the same argument, even though the VAST majority of firearms are owned legally and will never be used in a crime.

However, as someone in the business of investigations, this type of technology will make some crimes all but unsolvable. The child porn one particularly. It's already hard enough to get warrants for that type of stuff (computers/ phones/ etc). With encryption, there's nothing else we can do, except for sting operations which are costly and nobody wants to pay for more LEO's or their time.
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post #24 of 111
Something that laws makers seem to ignore...
Code:
crim·i·nal
ˈkrimənl/
noun
noun: criminal; plural noun: criminals

    1.
    a person who has committed a crime.
    "these men are dangerous criminals"
    synonyms:   lawbreaker, offender, villain, delinquent, felon, convict, malefactor, wrongdoer, culprit, miscreant; More
Code:
crime
krīm/
noun
noun: crime; plural noun: crimes

    an action or omission that constitutes an offense that may be prosecuted by the state and is punishable by law.
    "shoplifting was a serious crime"
    synonyms:   offense, unlawful act, illegal act, felony, misdemeanor, misdeed, wrong; informalno-no
    "kidnapping is a very serious crime"
        illegal activities.
        "the victims of crime"
        synonyms:       lawbreaking, delinquency, wrongdoing, criminality, misconduct, illegality, villainy; More
        informalcrookedness;
        malfeasance
        "the increase in crime"
        an action or activity that, although not illegal, is considered to be evil, shameful, or wrong.
        "they condemned apartheid as a crime against humanity"
        synonyms:       sin, evil, immoral act, wrong, atrocity, abomination, disgrace, outrage
        "a crime against humanity"

Origin
Middle English (in the sense ‘wickedness, sin’): via Old French from Latin crimen ‘judgment, offense,’ based on cernere ‘to judge.’


Making laws saying something *can't* be used doesn't make any sense, since a criminal is a criminal because he's breaking the law in the first place. Just because Google, Apple, and other big companies can't incorporate encryption, doesn't mean that others won't still be making a hardened encryption that any criminal can and will most likely use instead of basic encryption ( or lack there of now ) provided by your devices manufacturer.

And then you have to remember, if you open up encryption to law enforcement, you're adding a weakness that criminals can then utilize as well.

The only people this will affect, are the average people, not criminals.
Edited by Shrak - 11/2/15 at 2:23pm
post #25 of 111
If you look at it another way... Some of the worst crimes conceived came through internet communication as the way to execute it. You know these guys aren't writing their plans down on paper.

Then again, is this just a vague excuse to police the entire internet? Possibly more of a way for people to access what is hidden?...

All I know is this. If you put the law into peoples hands then the law is only as strong as the people who abide by it. If and when that falls apart us as users are no longer safe.

Aka he who holds the gold makes the rules... Not cool.
    
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post #26 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankzro View Post

If you look at it another way... Some of the worst crimes conceived came through internet communication as the way to execute it.
My sense of history just exploded out of my ears as I read this. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, "Godwin", the true monsters of the last century all committed their atrocities before the internet was born.
In fact, evidence coming out of acts like the Arab Spring indicate that internet communication reduces the severity of these types of crimes as the atrocities can be reported real time and images of it spread across the globe.
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post #27 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chakravant View Post

My sense of history just exploded out of my ears as I read this. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, "Godwin", the true monsters of the last century all committed their atrocities before the internet was born.
In fact, evidence coming out of acts like the Arab Spring indicate that internet communication reduces the severity of these types of crimes as the atrocities can be reported real time and images of it spread across the globe.

Im not talking about then.... You need to understand criminals are smarter now. Back then doesn't matter now... I am talking right now. Things like 9/11... That happened and you can't tell me the internet didn't help it along.

Although 9/11 is not a great example either... you don't gotta tell me about the Hitlers and African War Lords... I know man.
    
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post #28 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankzro View Post

Im not talking about then.... You need to understand criminals are smarter now. Back then doesn't matter now... I am talking right now. Things like 9/11... That happened and you can't tell me the internet didn't help it along.

Although 9/11 is not a great example either... you don't gotta tell me about the Hitlers and African War Lords... I know man.
You're comparing 3,000 deaths to over 10,000,000. 9/11, although tragic, is not in the top 10% of modern "worst crimes conceived". The Hutus and Tutsis are not using the internet to plan their attacks. Internet in Syria right now is pretty bad.
The internet likely had little to do with Al Qaieda planning and tactics. They relied more on word of mouth, which is how OBL was located (finding the mouth, then backtracking it).
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post #29 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankzro View Post

If you look at it another way... Some of the worst crimes conceived came through internet communication as the way to execute it. You know these guys aren't writing their plans down on paper.


It's simply adaptation.

Pen and paper worked for ages and ages. The internet sure made it easier for long distance messages, but that doesn't mean it's being relied upon. All such a law would do is force criminals to seek out alternative encryption systems ( you can bet not all will bow down to U.S. law and add backdoors ), and if that fails... good old U.S. Postage works just as good as ever, or even personal messengers. Criminals will adapt, they always have, they always will.

It's always going to be a game of cat and mouse. Don't let your privacy become irrelevant in that game, you'll end up losing more on the way.
Edited by Shrak - 11/2/15 at 2:58pm
post #30 of 111
Good thing I still have good ol' pen and paper.
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