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[TheTelegraph] Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakable encryption under new laws - Page 10

post #91 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by KYKYLLIKA View Post

Yep, that's the gist. Then you want to also outperform other multinational security complexes, other terrorist organizations spying on terrorist organizations, and you want to know which crime groups compete with each other and whether one can foil another’s plans before you take too much damage so that you don’t have to spend your own resources, etc, etc… Soon enough this becomes this really confusing dance of everyone trying to lead everyone into the traps while not falling into others’ traps.

Well we agree then. Duly noted that lawmakers are setting traps for citizens.
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post #92 of 111
Seems to me what people are missing here is that if we hand the government this power, even if it actually prevents a few criminals and terrorists from getting away with murder, you still have to look at the big picture.

I am not versed on the statistics, but I bet my chances of getting struck by lightning are better than suffering great harm from a criminal/terrorist. These types of crimes are super sensationalized by the media and government, but would you rather a handful not die and the rest suffer? Make no mistake, if you give people this power it will be abused, and eventually more power will be taken.

Why don't we make these kinds of sacrifices for traffic accidents? Those are way more real for me, and everyone else, or is that we are willing to let accidents happen so that most can get from point a to b with efficiency? How is that different from this situation? There are always going to be tradeoffs. In the final analysis lives are money, and you have to look at things in this light to make good decisions.
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post #93 of 111
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Originally Posted by b.walker36 View Post

I personally think if you have nothing to hide you shouldn't worry because there is no precedent that I have heard of in the US where this has been abused to go after a normal person. That aside my belief there has nothing to do with the fact that I think this type of law protects more people than it hurts. Now later on after you quoted me someone else mentioned the implications of it breaking encryption for everyone and possibly making that data at risk to things outside the law. That made me go back to the IDK side on this specific bill. I'm still all for the surveillance acts of texts/emails and stuff though.

Nobody is stopping you from drinking your aspartame sweetened drink and eating your agent orange sprayed GMO's. You are more than welcome to ignore that absolute power corrupts absolutely and that you will be devoured by your willful ignorance for you are one who neither deserves liberty nor security as there is no security in a tyranny.
Edited by Liranan - 11/4/15 at 9:12am
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post #94 of 111
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Originally Posted by Quantium40 View Post


Why don't we make these kinds of sacrifices for traffic accidents?

Just super quick, traffic accidents? Lol, how about medical malpractice? In the states preventable medical malpractice or death from preventable causes is stellar. Do you know why? because we work nursing staff to DEATH. 100h shifts? Poop, I couldn't pull that before suffering from neural damage known as old age. My record was 67h working and awake for exams. 100h? That is insanity and they want them to perform infusions and other life safety stuff. I wouldn't trust my own mother to make me tea if she was awake for 100h.

And what is done to fix this? NOTHING. We spent more cash money on military and spying than you guys. Orders of magnitude more. And public just takes it. So yeah, I feel for my UK brothers and sisters when laws like these are proposed or when Camerotron3000 says that "innocent until proven guilty" is to naïve in this day and age.

So I'd recommend learning cryptography, get off clouds and start putting together some mesh networks. Because cyberpunk dystopia is just few metro stops away from you guys and an excuse of "I am not tech savy" might not cut it anymore. Remember they are only people, they wrote this stuff and you can get around it. Its not easy but than again, life isn't easy and it could be worse.

I wish you all best of luck = \
*sry for a rant, didn't mean to.
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post #95 of 111
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Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post

Yes I understand. The true confusion I have, after all this explanation, comes from the need to provide a "secure" messaging service in the first place, if there's a back door built in anyway. That's like saying a door knob is a reasonable measure to keep criminals out of your house.

I'm confused. This doesn't seem to be in response to the subject I was talking about nor that of the post I quoted.
post #96 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

Nobody is stopping you from drinking your aspartame sweetened drink and eating your agent orange sprayed GMO's. You are more than welcome to ignore that absolute power corrupts absolutely and that you will be devoured by your willful ignorance for you are one who neither deserves liberty nor security as there is no security from tyranny.

Will never understand why you people can't debate respectfully. You basically just called me in ignorant sheep, and I don't appreciate that. I don't agree with everything the government does but I live in reality where some sacrifices have to be made, there is no perfect system ever.

No matter what we have as a government people will corrupt it in one way or another, no one is perfect. I just prefer to live on the plane of reality where I'm okay with a government doing something that could be abused in order to protect the masses.
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post #97 of 111
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Originally Posted by Particle View Post

I'm confused. This doesn't seem to be in response to the subject I was talking about nor that of the post I quoted.

It's called concession. A rare internet beast. You've probably not seen it before. It means I agree with your rebuttal.

However the original problem is not rectified by the information you presented. That being an engineered version of the second scenario you suggested.
Edited by un-midas touch - 11/4/15 at 9:22am
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post #98 of 111
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Originally Posted by b.walker36 View Post

Will never understand why you people can't debate respectfully. You basically just called me in ignorant sheep, and I don't appreciate that. I don't agree with everything the government does but I live in reality where some sacrifices have to be made, there is no perfect system ever.

No matter what we have as a government people will corrupt it in one way or another, no one is perfect. I just prefer to live on the plane of reality where I'm okay with a government doing something that could be abused in order to protect the masses.

You're getting that response because your point of view is sacrificing your neighbors freedom for your own illusion of security. If you want to throw away your own liberty, that's your choice, but don't encourage the taking of everyone else's. Sacrifices are made to live in a peaceful society, but those sacrifices can not, and must not be a violation of the Constitution, which is what government spying does.

Spying on everyone will never stop terrorism. It will only stop when the US & UK finally accept why it happens in the first place....and it's not because they hate our freedom...it's because both countries spread their influence around the world sticking their noses in everyone's business and it pisses people off.
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post #99 of 111
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Originally Posted by Diffident View Post

You're getting that response because your point of view is sacrificing your neighbors freedom for your own illusion of security. If you want to throw away your own liberty, that's your choice, but don't encourage the taking of everyone else's. Sacrifices are made to live in a peaceful society, but those sacrifices can not, and must not be a violation of the Constitution, which is what government spying does.

Spying on everyone will never stop terrorism. It will only stop when the US & UK finally accept why it happens in the first place....and it's not because they hate our freedom...it's because both countries spread their influence around the world sticking their noses in everyone's business and it pisses people off.

Even if my opinion would mean we all loose a little privacy it does not excuse these type of responses.

The constitution and privacy are not black and white. The internet is a public place and I believe that you give up certain expectations of privacy when you use it. Just as a celebrity does, which is why the media is not constantly thrown in jail. Same as in a locker room. There is plenty of precedent in where courts have upheld this idea (not necessarily with the internet). I personally don't believe that our constitutional rights are stepped on by collecting but not reviewing information. Is it abused probably, is the law perfect absolutely not and there needs to be more transparency and oversight but I believe the ability to collect information that disappears once sent is a good thing. The constitution has never been updated to properly reflect the virtual world.

I have already agreed with other users that I'm not so sure about this because it would technically put peoples data at risk to things outside the law.
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post #100 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by b.walker36 View Post

Even if my opinion would mean we all loose a little privacy it does not excuse these type of responses.

The constitution and privacy are not black and white. The internet is a public place and I believe that you give up certain expectations of privacy when you use it. Just as a celebrity does, which is why the media is not constantly thrown in jail. Same as in a locker room. There is plenty of precedent in where courts have upheld this idea (not necessarily with the internet). I personally don't believe that our constitutional rights are stepped on by collecting but not reviewing information. Is it abused probably, is the law perfect absolutely not and there needs to be more transparency and oversight but I believe the ability to collect information that disappears once sent is a good thing. The constitution has never been updated to properly reflect the virtual world.

I have already agreed with other users that I'm not so sure about this because it would technically put peoples data at risk to things outside the law.

There is no grey area. There either is or there isn't freedom, just like freedom of speech. You can't deny one person the freedom to speak and not another as soon enough all will be denied it.

I apologise for being so short and disrespectful let me illustrated my point with the following quite by Martin Niemoller.
Quote:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

There is no such thing as a grey area. Grey area's are created by tyrants who wish to have ever larger expanding powers.
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