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[Forbes] - Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped - Page 17

post #161 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianblessed View Post

There is no convincing the sheep of anything to the contrary.

ftfy.

Better to be a paranoid rabbit than a gullible sheep
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post #162 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

You're the one who should get in on the 21st century, acknowledge all of the places where these practices are being disputed in court and not be passively ok with the progressive erosion of privacy and choice to share what you want to share.

I live in the 21st century. I acknowledge, that certain realities SUCK but, they're just that, realities. Among them are the loss of privacy in the past 5 years. Sorry but, facts. Cops can without a warrant, if they show even the slightest bit of PC, can now attain your browsing habits. Browsing habits that are already violated by Google. They can already read you mail, data that's already been violated by Verizon, Google et al.

You no longer have a reasonable expectation of privacy outside of the 4 corners of your private domicile. It sucks, it genuinely does but, it's reality.

It is what it is.


Thank you for thoroughly proving my point. You're explicitly admitting that you recognize an undesirable reality yet are not willing to do anything to contribute to change it.




Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I think your tinfoil is a little too tight....


Look at it VERY simply...

Why would Microsoft spend the hundreds of millions to billions to develop a capability they already have? If Microsoft's goal is to "steal" your data, the data they already have access to, why create an entirely new system?

Seriously, just stop the rant for a moment and think. No person or group is going to exhaust resources to create access to something they already have access too. No matter the motivation!


See my above answer, it is about access. Your tinfoil is keeping you from seeing what the conversation is about.


First, being in Court doesn't mean a damn thing - talk to me after a verdict. Anyone can sue anyone. Second, once again, look at my above answer(s). It is about access. They already have it.


Not what I said, and again, you fail to see the larger picture through the Tinfoil.

The backlash to Microsoft if they were to "steal" the private information (and do anything with it), of all the Windows 10 users, would be beyond what you can imagine. If you had Microsoft violate the privacy of a hundred million users, they would damn near stop existing. You utterly underestimate the repercussions of the event you are afraid of.



Wait, wait, wait, wait.......do you hear yourself? Let me point something out to you....

You people are screaming about "even if the button is off, they could still do it!", as evidence to support your hilarious claim of identity theft. Yet to defend your position you say other software can "refuse" the update? I hope to God you see the issue here....

If Microsoft was going to violate several laws, by stealing your data, then they wouldn't care about any buttons you have pressed to "refuse" any updates. They would simply push them, because they are doing something illegal anyways. After all, they can hide it from you to begin with....

In other words; simply by having any use/contact with Microsoft products, the big evil company could steal all the data about you they wanted, no matter what you said.



Utterly and completely wrong.

I am an ISP.



It doesn't matter that they aren't the only place for music (I don't personally use iTunes). Although you are right that marketing data on you is taken from every place you spend money already.


Again, the Tinfoil hat is tight with you. That or a profound lack of life experience and age behind you. You sound like a 22 year old Occupy Wall St type.


EDIT:

There is a difference between protecting your data from someone trying to intrude on your privacy and that of sending system data. Yes, Windows 10 on wide open "Let's be Friends" share mode does share a lot, although still not anything more than what people put out there already. When dialed back to the minimal settings, it is system log information for crashes and other issues.

The fact that people in here believe that Microsoft has any interest in your naked photos, bank account numbers and balances, is silly. It is just damned silly. As a business what you are doing for dinner has more value to me than knowing the size of your penis.

Even if Microsoft had your bank account number, they aren't going to be able to do a damn thing with it. If you have any sense about you at all, you will notice any money leaving. That money is insured, so you are fine, and Microsoft would be out.

People, calm down. Want to worry about privacy and theft of information? Don't put your trash on the curb, and get a locking mailbox if you don't have one. Microsoft doesn't give a crap about your intimates.




This is what happens when people resort to ad hominem attacks and use the "tinfoil" expression ad nauseam to try to belittle other people's arguments.

Really, PostalTwinkie, is this how far and low you are willing to go in order to try to prove your point? Make it personal? Really?



First of all, let me make it clear that I'm in the EU, where even the data retention directive was struck down, so an ISP like yours would never be allowed to work here in the first place if you are just willing to satisfy the desires of agencies without a warrant.

Second, don't project on me the usual 'they don't care about what content you're viewing or your naughty pictures' argument because I don't frame the discussion like that as it is obviously reductionist and its sole purpose it to ridicule the theme and dismiss its importance as something entirely juvenile. Interesting that you seemingly caught onto that line of argument, for someone who insults others based on a perceived notion of being too young to understand what's at stake.

Third, yes, Microsoft would indeed invest millions in developing that capability because they don't trust second hand data that can be incomplete and even manipulated, not to mention that they can't get some of that data from anywhere else as up to this point there was no such thing as a Windows desktop OS that collected so much data on its users. That part they are building anew, they can't even purchase it from a third party.

Fourth, no, I don't underestimate the repercussions of them blatantly lying to consumers and then something bad happening to them. At all. If you have been paying any attention to current events you will have learned of what Volkswagen's attitude was recently: they blatantly lied and stalled for a year before they couldn't lie anymore - and they went unnoticed since 2008 - and now they are facing billions of dollars and euros in fines, repairs and lost sales. This is as real as it gets and it is happening right now. People filled their lungs with pollution, their life quality was decreased, some even died earlier because of this. Just yesterday one more engine affecting another eight hundred thousand cars was found to also have the cheating emissions software in addition to the eleven million cars already found affected with another engine.

Fifth, you failed to notice that I said that the agreement I have with them lets me refuse updates to Windows 7 and 8.1. It does matter if they lie and the refusal's technical implementation doesn't have the desired effect, but there is a reason why I kept that out of that argument: because if they are caught lying at the end of the day they will get sued and they will have to pay. You seriously can't have your cake and eat it, but you seemingly want to pass off the idea that you're right when you aren't.


Proof of your inconsistency:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Again, we aren't talking about what you had for dinner sort of things. People are on here feigning legitimate concern of legitimate privacy theft.

Apples and Zebras.

Microsoft can't suddenly modify their EULA that says you give them all your money, slip it in by "modifying some paragraphs in the 10,000 page long license agreement", and be protected. That isn't how it works.


Sixth, it seems pretty obvious that if you buy music from iTunes that they know what you bought, that much is obvious, you can't expect or command them to have an amnesia attack right after they sell you stuff. That is valid for both physical and on-line stores.


But it stops there, or at least it should and it's what I believe should be the norm. Apple has no business in knowing whether I also buy music from Amazon, Microsoft, etc, and even if I also buy physical CDs and rip the tracks to my HDD. If there is a music scanning mechanism within iTunes to browse your folders for more music and upload said information to them it should be entirely optional and anything to the contrary is abusive. It should also be entirely optional for them to get to know what tracks you listen to the most, for how long, if you shuffle, fast forward, etc.


The ridicule of the situation that we are getting to is that even Nvidia wants to hide their game ready drivers behind a privacy invading wall. They want to know what your system is, what games you have and how you play them.

How you play them. I wish I was making this stuff up, but I'm not:

http://www.geforce.com/geforce-experience/faq
Quote:
Q: What data does GeForce Experience send to NVIDIA?
A: The application collects data needed to recommend the correct driver update and optimal settings including hardware configuration, operating system, language, installed games, game settings, game usage, game performance, and current driver version. If a user is not signed into an NVIDIA account, this data is not personally identifiable. If a user is signed into an NVIDIA account, the data is personally identifiable. All data collected is protected by NVIDIA's privacy policy.

And remember, the plan is to require e-mail registration so the data will be personally identifiable, per the rules written above.


What's next? Mandating a Kinect style camera that can't be disconnected (that was the plan, remember?) so that they can track your emotions while gaming? After all, you can always use the excuse that it's to make the game better. Where exactly do you stop?


Also, as of now I still haven't seen one single person debunk what I said about the economics behind bug patching and their real reasoning for wanting basic telemetry.

You can keep insulting people instead of debating arguments, but it doesn't do your case any good, much the contrary.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Privacy minded people are usually more concerned with government. Or, more accurately, they're concerned with how powerful people may wish to use their information. Big data could be a very potent tool for the corrupt.

The NSA was caught funding warrantless, mass spying programs within AT&T. If that, why not this?
If I can't trust my government to inform me of when I'm being preemptively investigated without reasonable suspicion, I can't trust my government to investigate me for valid crimes.

Imagine if the government could have known about our founding fathers' dissident characteristics before they were able to gain traction. America wouldn't likely exist.

It's naive to think that America's government will never turn against it's people, in the fashion that every single great nation has done in the past. It's necessary for people to keep tabs on their government by scrutinizing it's policy, not by depending on the media to tell you when to be concerned.

Privacy minded people are people who truly understand the value of privacy. They associate it with freedom, for the same reasons that the founding fathers did. They understand that the government limiting privacy will limit speech. Limiting speech will limit dissidence.
Data from corporate spying is easily accessible to the government. It's probably easier than it would be, otherwise, both in terms of legality and access.

No one is worried about Microsoft stealing their credit card numbers. They're worried about the government acquiring our personal information.


Exactly.

I said it before, bit I think it warrants saying again: it shouldn't be "anything goes" when making business. Principles should always apply even if they stop corporations from getting to that elusive last efficiency percentage points.

I honestly think that many people in the US don't understand where people in the EU are coming from simply because they've always lived in a so called democracy and they have yet to fully experience the 'boiling the frog' phenomenon. We've had some pretty bad dictatorships in the 20th century on this side of the Atlantic, and they are close enough in memory that everybody, even younger generations, can understand what's at stake with much more ease.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Anyone who complains about Microsoft Windows 10 and yet uses Google Chrome, Google Youtube, Google+, Google Search, Google Maps, Google etc, etc, etc ... just cracks me the heck up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by r0llinlacs View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Anyone who complains about Microsoft Windows 10 and yet uses Google Chrome, Google Youtube, Google+, Google Search, Google Maps, Google etc, etc, etc ... just cracks me the heck up.

People that use the excuse that so-and-so company does it, so it's okay if Microsoft does it, crack me the heck up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by r0llinlacs View Post

People that use the excuse that so-and-so company does it, so it's okay if Microsoft does it, crack me the heck up.

I'm using it as an excuse. I'm just simply pointing out that other companies snoop on people as much, if not more, than Microsoft. So unless they are going to never use Google anything, to say "I won't upgrade to Windows 10" is hypocritical as sin.


No, it isn't hypocritical at all, it's about choice. Why do you and others put everything in the same bag? You share info with one company sometimes because you really have to in order to make the transaction, therefore you have to or it's ok to share that information with dozens of other third parties? Why do you keep making that logical jump? It doesn't make sense, and it's actually against common sense. You don't put all your eggs in the same basket.

If regulators would take what you are saying literally then there would be no privacy laws at all. Why protect medical data? There is already one hospital and eventually also an insurance company that knows about your condition(s), so why not share that information with all other private entities that have hospitals and all other insurance companies?

What is your criteria for privacy laws anyway? You seem to have none. It's the 'share it once, you're doomed to share it with everyone' criteria.
Edited by tpi2007 - 11/3/15 at 2:15pm
 
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post #163 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

In fact, if you emailed your sister a picture of your foot from a private server and it went to her Gmail, it's still considered public because you submitted data outside of the residence.

No, it is not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_privacy#United_States
post #164 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Once again, as has been stated....

When you go to the lowest level of reporting, it just sends basic crash reports and other hardware/system related issues. Although it really doesn't matter, people are going to believe what they believe. I will continue to enjoy Windows 10.

So is that the case if you disable everything in the options and make a few adjustments to the registry and all that stuff? Or only through the options?
Is there a reliable source for this or something? (I believe it/ read it already somewhere a few times but I would like to see a good source to show around).

One very serious issue for me is there are way too many bad and unreliable news out. Let alone the news which are going crazy because Microsoft seemingly collects ALL your data... and people believe it.
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post #165 of 234
Windows 10 sends the first 35mb of video from your webcam to M$ servers. If that doesn't creep you out, you're probably a voyeuristic exhibitionist.
    
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post #166 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuuut View Post

I still don't understand why they can't put the option to turn it off somewhere deep in the options menu. This means regular users probably can't find it and tech savvy people who don't want it can turn it off.

Regular users could care less about such a switch. The hypothetical paranoid scenario people here are getting worried about doesn't enter the mind of a typical user so a switch would be useless.

The existence of such a switch would probably cause lots of regular users to turn it off, not because they are making an informed decision but because they have read some sensationalist article saying MS will steal your bank details if you don't turn it off.
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post #167 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Once again, as has been stated....

When you go to the lowest level of reporting, it just sends basic crash reports and other hardware/system related issues. Although it really doesn't matter, people are going to believe what they believe. I will continue to enjoy Windows 10.

but. do we have proof? it is closed source after all.
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i7-3920XM GTX980M G.SKILL Ripjaws 32GB Model F3-1866C10Q-32GRSL Samsung SSD 850 EVO mSATA 1TB 
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WD Blue 5400 RPM 1TB ODD Conversion w/ White Label 2TB Empty / Free Bay Converted External USB 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
M14x R2 10 CFM CPU fan Liquid Metal Pro Windows 10 /w Telemetry Block  1080p 120Hz eDP 
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Sony FW900 @ 2304 x 1440 @ 80hz Saitek Eclipse I Dell 330 Watt Brick Logitech G500s 
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Intel Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 w/ BT iGPU disable / bypass 
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C2Q Q9550 ASUS P5E3 Deluxe Wifi-AP EVGA GTX 770 4GB Classified Kingston HyperX DDR3 KHX1600C9D3K2/8G 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
PNY 1333 55gb, 320Gb, 500GB, 1TB Corsair H80 Win 7 Ultimate 64bit 
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Lubuntu 16.04 x64 Dual 1600x1200 Dell m993s @ 70hz TX750 Haf 912 
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post #168 of 234
In terms of online debates about this OS, IMO generally there's very few " I love the interface, or I love the OS because it made my PC experience better for w/e reason. Yes those exist, but again, they are few and far between. From what I have read far and wide with my own eyes, it's hype-kiddo's sycked about being on the 'latest and greatest" Windows OS (coupled with the argument of "next years games will play in DX12! wooohoo!") Proceeded with them generally treating any non-Win-OS-upgraders like a tool for.. reasons.

More importantly (to me) than Win 10's data collection/privacy issues are the Win 10 defenders excuses for defending it.

Excuse A) So what? Every major online service does it... right? Get over your yourself or get left in the digital dust!

OR

Excuse B) They are FREE collect my personal data as I have NOTHING TO HIDE! If you don't wanna use Win 10 you MUST be a paranoid moron or an online criminal with much secrets and stuffs...

I'll go nail myself to the cross now, for you people that keep saying I'm wrong for wanting to defend my rights. And please don't give me that "YOU AGREED TO THE TERMS BLAH BLAH BLAH" crap. MS didn't even agree to them, but I am somehow wrong for saying KISS MY ASS MS?

Give me a friggin break.
 
ThinkPad Yoga
(10 items)
 
 
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Baytrail Quad Core @ 2.16 Ghz OEM Lenovo 20DAS02X00 Intel HD Graphics 8GB DDR3L 1600 
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240GB Kingston SSD N/A Windows 8.1 Pro 11.6" IPS Touch Display @ 1366 x 768 
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ThinkPad baby... HD Audio 
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ThinkPad Yoga
(10 items)
 
 
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Baytrail Quad Core @ 2.16 Ghz OEM Lenovo 20DAS02X00 Intel HD Graphics 8GB DDR3L 1600 
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240GB Kingston SSD N/A Windows 8.1 Pro 11.6" IPS Touch Display @ 1366 x 768 
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ThinkPad baby... HD Audio 
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post #169 of 234
Meanwhile, I'm happy to report that Skullgirls works perfectly on Linux thumb.gif

I have two gamepads: a cheap Trust and a cheap xbox 360 gamestop clone (controller with cable) and the 360's clone wasn't working,
so I checked the game's forum on Steam and a user posted a solution.

Super easy to follow and worked at first shot: the game uses an engine / library (SDL) which keeps all the known controllers configuration in a text file.
SDL also provides a tool (GUI) which shows a gamepad on the screen and asks you to press the buttons and move the sticks.
This tool then generates a line, like this:

030000006f0e00000103000000020000,Logic3 Controller,platform:Linux,x:b2,a:b0,b:b1,y:b3,back:b6,guide:b8,start:b7,dpleft:h0.8,dpdown:h0.0,dpdown:h0.4,dpright:h0.0,dpright:h0.2,dpup:h0.0,dpup:h0.1,leftshoulder:h0.0,leftshoulder:b4,lefttrigger:a2,rightshoulder:b5,righttrigger:a5,leftstick:b9,rightstick:b10,leftx:a0,lefty:a1,rightx:a3,righty:a4,

which once added to the text file, makes the 360's gamepad clone work perfectly.
I've published this line on the game forum so now the game developers, the engine developers and users can just add it and have my same gamepad work plug&play.

This was possible not because some corporation or fat manager allowed me to, but because SDL is open source and the developers are smart.
Btw also Unreal Engine 4 is open source ...
post #170 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chakravant View Post

As much as I love Linux, that list is rather sketchy. Borderlands 2/Pre-Sequel and Civ 5 both have reduced graphics (Civ 5 rather severely) and the Borderlands titles pull roughly half the fps on the same hardware. Those are just the games I specifically know about. Many Valve Linux ports suffer from these kinds of issues.

Sadly, for many, Linux gaming is just not there yet.

I have a decent rig: 4770K, 16GB ram, GTX 980 and played around 200 hours of Borderlands 2 on Windows
then I moved to Linux and played till now around 50 hours.
Can't tell the difference.

I have frames capped at 60 fps, when online and full of enemies and bullets it occasionally drops to 40-50 fps
but that happened also on Windows.

About Valve Linux ports, those are my results with CS:GO:
1080p maxed
min: 170 fps
avrg: 220 fps
peaks: 260 fps
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