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[Forbes] - Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped - Page 9

post #81 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catscratch View Post

So this thread needs "Do not compare web services behavior to how your OS behaves" too. mad.gif

I just wish by the time dx12 becomes the norm, Linux gaming becomes a real thing and bites MS in the you know where.

Maybe I'm not taking your point correctly, but considering DX12 is pretty much MS/Windows only, if it becomes the norm, wouldn't people not shift to Linux for gaming because inertia?

On-topic: While I won't outright call it paranoia, it is quite a fair bit beyond the pale. I would speculate that they don't give much thought to what kind of porn you keep on your drives and your questionable tastes in anime music. If we assume Microsoft is on the up and up, then you can disable most data sending activity sans diagnostics, which admittedly I always decline to send. Considering MS is used in so much enterprise, it doesn't exactly do them much good if the general perception is that MS actively collects PII. Additionally, there are so many other vectors of attack to get PII out of you (web transactions, search engines, etc.), that attacking MS for unknown tidbits of data isn't exactly worth the time. (Really we're all just speculating on what MS actually gets from us)

Oh and the government wants your info and wants to put a backdoor in place, no corporate policy is going to stop them (see Equation Group, NSA in general). Heck, if anything, the NSA probably doesn't want MS' telemetry collection because it draws attention to the idea of data collection.
post #82 of 234
i hate the fact that windows 10 is on my office PC...
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post #83 of 234
For a website full of supposed "tech" gurus you all are still acting like very low information technophiles. @PostalTwinkie and @Masked have already said it but I'll reiterate because perhaps many of you are unable or unwilling to read the facts. Information you can't stop from sending them is information they need to make sure the OS continues to be healthy with all hardware and software configurations. If you want to deny them the ability to use crash and bug reports to fix their OS I have to ask what your agenda and motive for that is. It's certainly not a productive one.


If you don't like the way MS OS is heading switch to linux and go join that cult. Leave those of us in the world of progress alone. 99.9% (yes I made it up but it's accurate) of users would never send the crash reports and telemetry that MS needs to look at problems within the OS so they've gone around asking the user to do it and have embedded the code into the OS so that it sends the telemetry itself. You say that's evil. I say that is damned smart.,
 
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post #84 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

MS denied the US government had back doors in all their OS until they couldn't deny it any longer. They can claim all they want but unless they can somehow prove 100% they aren't spying on us MSpy are doing it and handing all that data to whoever demands it.

Google denied that the NSA had a back door. Verizon denied that the NSA had a back door...Et al. Get where I'm going?

The difference here is actually important.

Your PC is on private property.

Private property.

The 4th Amendment covers the taking of information from your PRIVATE PROPERTY.

This isn't you visiting a website whereby your "signal" literally, leaves the 4 corners of your domicile. This is your private residence.

So, no. The only data they're taking is exactly what Postal said previously. To do otherwise, violates constitutional law and would be the biggest 4th amendment case in the history of this country.

Ask any constitutional lawyer. - Because the UNIT is on your PRIVATE PROPERTY, any harnessing of data you don't agree to, is a violation.
post #85 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateZ View Post

So what choice do we have?

Whell there is always Linux, or BSDs. I use them for any task I don't want to be auto-compromised.

==============================================================================
But that's not why I stopped by this thread...

Sigh. I really should make a video on the topic of security/privacy in general but just like this comment, it will probably get ignored.
*I will deliberately avoid some additional more over arching points to not be labeled a nutjob.



Anyways with prelude aside. Security is a two way street. People often assume they have "nothing to hide" so they got nothing to worry about. And the thing is, they are dead wrong. Any "feature" used by a corp/gov that doesn't rely on your voluntary submission and is not open sourced is a security threat. Even if you wuw corp x/gov x it has nothing to do with their intent.

Any feature that is not open to the user's discretion and which source code can't be viewed is open to be beaten to death on a test system, exploited, automated and distributed by those who are not your wuwed corp x/gov x. Ever wondered why windows still has automated software capable of taking over clusters of net by itself? Its due to very similar back doors in every machine running the same OS with user having no way of correcting them. So if someone say starts intercepting say the windows automated "crash logs" from your machine and than uses it to infiltrate it and steal everything that was not nailed down, you have no choice but pray corp x/gov x will save you.

The more you mandate that users do something, and don't ask any questions the less secure they become.

And if you think people at corp x/gov x are just so much more competent and are just so much better than those nasty thieves. Well you've obviously never worked a day in your life on any job. No matter what it is you do, the attitude in work place is pretty universal and it sure translates to software giants and the us government. Its not intentional either, its a nature of this system. And by its virtue its inferior to an open source model that allows high degree of variance in machines and high degree of trouble shooting that wide sweeping attacks become less possible and even individual attacks take time to carry out and tend to get a lot more personal.


Enjoy windows 10 or don't. I wouldn't trust it with any data worth securing for this very programmatic none conspiratorial reason.
If you want conspiracies, than by me a drink = p
p.s. all edits to post are just spelling, and rewordings. god I am terrible at those in the morning.
Edited by _Red_Dog_ - 11/3/15 at 7:12am
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post #86 of 234
This is exactly the reason why I do all my web browsing/banking inside a virtual machine running Linux. It really offers piece of mind to know that all your communications are un spy-able by Microsoft using this method. And encrypting the Linux installation offers even more protection.
Edited by aweir - 11/3/15 at 7:13am
post #87 of 234
I have no problem with this. It was always annoying doing the crash report thing and if they simply just do it in the background with little to no performance hit, why the heck not?

Better knowledge of what is crashing the system will allow for better performance after future updates.

I love Windows 10. Best version of Windows ever! I'll never go back to any older version.
post #88 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Google denied that the NSA had a back door. Verizon denied that the NSA had a back door...Et al. Get where I'm going?

The difference here is actually important.

Your PC is on private property.

Private property.

The 4th Amendment covers the taking of information from your PRIVATE PROPERTY.

This isn't you visiting a website whereby your "signal" literally, leaves the 4 corners of your domicile. This is your private residence.

So, no. The only data they're taking is exactly what Postal said previously. To do otherwise, violates constitutional law and would be the biggest 4th amendment case in the history of this country.

Ask any constitutional lawyer. - Because the UNIT is on your PRIVATE PROPERTY, any harnessing of data you don't agree to, is a violation.

This is probably where we find out in the Terms and Conditions we all blindly accept because we have no choice, we actually end up agreeing to this lol
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post #89 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by aweir View Post

This is exactly the reason why I do all my web browsing/banking inside a virtual machine running Linux. It really offers piece of mind to know that all your communications are un spy-able by Microsoft using this method. And encrypting the Linux installation offers even more protection.

Actually, they don't.

What the OP/article consider spying isn't actually "spying" by any means, it's passing along relevant data. Windows 10 passes along relevant system data.

The reality is that Google (Even when browsed anonymously) passes along search data. Every major email back-end minus 1 or 2, are fully open to the NSA - Your browser history isn't your property...Verizon passes along the same information, everyone does.

The truth is that, within the parameters of your private poverty, you have rights. You have rights against an unlawful search and seizure by ANY party.

Which means that Microsoft can, only legally, take relevant performance data, that's it.

Linux/Unix/Ubuntu - It doesn't matter, any signal that leaves the 4 corners of your private domain is PUBLIC PROPERTY - That includes your search history.

Now, if you really wanted privacy, you'd host your own email server and proxy - Granted the ISP still has access to your traffic, therefor the NSA does; at least your emails are technically private unless, you're actually served a warrant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magical Eskimo View Post

This is probably where we find out in the Terms and Conditions we all blindly accept because we have no choice, we actually end up agreeing to this lol

Terms and Conditions cannot force you to breach a constitutional amendment. - This is law.

The only data that M$ can LEGALLY gather is performance data.

That is NOT spying. That is gathering performance data.

If they ever go BEYOND performance data, since you have not given actual permission (Which cannot be given through a EULA or T&C) than they are in DIRECT violation of the 4th amendment and once again, it will be the biggest constitutional law case, this country has ever seen because they'll snowball it to the Supreme Court.
Edited by Masked - 11/3/15 at 7:20am
post #90 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Red_Dog_ View Post

Whell there is always Linux, or BSDs. I use them for any task I don't want to be auto-compromised.

==============================================================================
But that's not why I stopped by this thread...

Sigh. I really should make a video on the topic of security/privacy in general but just like this comment, it will probably get ignored.
*I will deliberately avoid some additional more over arching points to not be labeled a nutjob.



Anyways with prelude aside. Security is a two way street. People often assume they have "nothing to hide" so they got nothing to worry about. And the thing is, they are dead wrong. Any "feature" used by a corp/gov that doesn't rely on your voluntary submission and is not open sourced is a security threat. Why does it matter? Even if you wuw corp x/gov x it doesn't matter.

Any feature that is not open to the user's discretion and which source code can't be viewed is open to be beaten to death on a test system, exploited, automated and distributed by those who are not your wuwed corp x/gov x. Ever wondered why windows still has automated software capable of taking over clusters of net by itself? Its due to very similar back doors in every machine running the same OS with user having no way of correcting them. So if someone say starts intercepting say the windows automated "crash logs" from your machine and than uses it to infiltrate it and steal everything that was not nailed down, you have no choice but pray corp x/gov x will save you.

The more you mandate that users do something, and don't ask any questions the less secure they become.

And if you think people at corp x/gov x are just so much more competent and are just so much better than those nasty thieves. Well you've obviously never worked a day in your life on any job. No matter what it is you do, the attitude in work place is pretty universal and it sure translates to software giants and the us government. Its not intentional either, its a nature of this system. And by its virtue its inferior to an open source model that allows high degree of variance in machines and high degree of trouble shooting that wide sweeping attacks become less possible and even individual attacks take time to carry out and tend to get a lot more personal.


Enjoy windows 10 or don't. I wouldn't trust it with any data worth securing for this very programmatic none conspiratorial reason.
If you want conspiracies, than by me a drink = p

I dual boot my system with Linux. I feel it's not as easy as Windows, also to add more salt there is literally very low amount of high quality software that i use. I like the UBUNTU GUI but that doesn't alone is enough to move a person to Foreign OS. I hate dash, i want something like what MAC does. I see you are kind of relatively new and you probably boiling reading the comments, I'm not going make things worse.
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