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[ARS] VW says 800,000 European cars have false CO2 emissions level too - Page 4  

post #31 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Again, for the umpeenth time (even though it keeps "mysteriously vanishing" over and over again), I do not advocate removing them, I am simply setting the record straight that removing environmental devices and changing tuning to be less environmentally friendly ... you know, like what Volkswagen intentionally and deceptively did ... DOES increase horse power and miles per gallon.

I am NOT anti-enviromental, but I am not a tree-hugger either. I prefer a balance. But in this thread and when talking about tech, I am talking as a "gear head".

Also, it's more like 1.9%, NOT 0.1-0.3%. Your math is off by a factor of 10.

You can't be bothered to read my post properly, so I can't be bothered to read yours properly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

1. Of course they are cheaper, but they also put out 10-100x more toxic emissions compared to an exhaust with a cat

2. Without a cat, you will gain a whole 0.5-2 hp. You would be better off leaving the cat on and getting a cold air intake

3. The sound mostly comes from the shape and length of the exhaust. While the cat does change the sound slightly, it won't make all that much of a difference. Especially if you use a high-flow cat.
post #32 of 167
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

2. Without a cat, you will gain a whole 0.5-2 hp. You would be better off leaving the cat on and getting a cold air intake

Bro, have do you even Dyno?
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

2. Without a cat, you will gain a whole 0.5-2 hp. You would be better off leaving the cat on and getting a cold air intake
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

I picked up 2.25mph on my quarter mile times and 15 horsepower on my 2003 Mercury Marauder on the dyno.

You were wrong on the percentage of MPH AND on the horsepower gains. Stick with a hobby and technology that you know.
Edited by 47 Knucklehead - 11/5/15 at 5:52am
post #33 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Bro, have do you even Dyno?
Bro, do you even error margin? (You don't read either, but that's a given at this point).

Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

You were wrong on the percentage of MPH AND on the horsepower gains. Stick with a hobby and technology that you know.

Lol. Comparing stock cat vs no cat. Not high-flow cat vs no cat.
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post #34 of 167
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex132 View Post

Bro, do you even error margin? (You don't read either, but that's a given at this point).
Lol.

A 4% gain is well above the margin of error on a dyno ... which is well below 1-2HP.



I'm not arguing about his comment about a cold air system, just the HP gain from the removal of a cat. If you notice in the picture of my engine, I also added a cold air system ... as well as a super charger (which is the biggest boost, but also the biggest cost). The CAK was the second most expensive (other than the tuner), and second best return. By far the cheapest (I actually MADE $250 by selling my CAT) is removing the CAT, and thus it could be argued that making money AND gaining HP is the most effective. But that is open to debate.

Again, I'm just talking raw numbers that are repeatable and verifiable.
Edited by 47 Knucklehead - 11/5/15 at 6:00am
post #35 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex132 View Post

Bro, do you even error margin? (You don't read either, but that's a given at this point).
Lol.

A 4% gain is well above the margin of error on a dyno ... which is well below 1-2HP.

Same, assuming, high quality dyno on the same day with the same environmental conditions?
Different dynos have different accuracy ratings too. And comparing 2 different dynos is completely pointless. Let alone on different days and conditions.

Also stop comparing stock cat vs no cat instead of a high-flow cat vs no cat - that's clearly what Andrews is saying.
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post #36 of 167
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex132 View Post

Same, assuming, high quality dyno on the same day with the same environmental conditions?
Different dynos have different accuracy ratings too. And comparing 2 different dynos is completely pointless. Let alone on different days and conditions.

Also stop comparing stock cat vs no cat instead of a high-flow cat vs no cat - that's clearly what Andrews is saying.

Different day, same INDOOR dyno, thus the environmental variable are the same.

As far as stardard cat vs high flow vs no cat ... all that does is reduce the changes. Yes, a HF cat is better than a standard cat, no kidding. But in order to show that there IS AN EFFECT ... which was the whole point of me answering post #6 ... the best way is to show a standard cat vs no cat. As far as I know, Volkswagen doesn't offer "high performance cats" on any of their cars. Thus the best and real way to answer it is to show the delta between a standard one and NONE. Why is that so hard to understand?



Anyway, we are now way off topic. Let's get back to VW and how they got busted doing something MUCH more serious than first reported.
Edited by 47 Knucklehead - 11/5/15 at 6:06am
post #37 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Bro, have do you even Dyno?

You were wrong on the percentage of MPH AND on the horsepower gains. Stick with a hobby and technology that you know.

It varies from car to car. Obviously your 4.6L V8 is going to have more of an improvement over a 1.6L I4. But it doesn't matter what car you use, you would still be better off when it comes to power, leaving the standard cat on and install a cold air intake and removing the mufflers. That's how small of a difference removing the cat is. If it really bothers you, buy an aftermarket high-flow cat.

Producing 9.81 times more CO, 23.85 times more HC and 26 times more NOx emissions isn't worth the 15 hp more on a dyno or to have a 2.25 mph faster 1/4 mile run.

The dyno run could also not have been that accurate.

You can "gain" or "lose" 15hp on two dyno runs straight after each other depending on how powerful the engine is.
post #38 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Different day, same INDOOR dyno, thus the environmental variable are the same.

Yeah temperature and humidity doesn't affect anything once you go indoors rolleyes.gif

Plus, comparing high flow cat to no cat. Not stock to none.
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post #39 of 167
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex132 View Post

Yeah temperature and humidity doesn't affect anything once you go indoors rolleyes.gif

Plus, comparing high flow cat to no cat. Not stock to none.

You see, in the modern world, there are these new fangled things called air conditioners. They take care of things like temperature and humidity. rolleyes.gif

Please read my previous post as to why I do the comparisons I do.
post #40 of 167
Regarding the whole cat vs no cat issue, do you people realise how much platinum is being used for this purpose? Platinum is rare, and I'm therefore against making something with that much in it mandatory, especially if you go through a couple of them during a car's lifetime.

I'm not against reducing emissions, but I feel that's not the way to do it.
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