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[Tech Report] GloFo successfully builds AMD chips on 14-nm FinFET LPP process - Page 6

post #51 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by caenlen View Post

this whole power saving thing is overrated. a space heater someone uses in winter runs 1500 watts, my pc uses 540 some watts on full load... make it 900 who cares... its not sucking 900 that often

and if you're in a tropic country with summer temperatures reaching 40c?

500watts of power load will be converted into heat, which is like firing up your "heater" during the summer, very uncomfortable.
and that 500watts of heat is then cooled by your AC, the power consumption of the two compounds to a whole lot more.
not to mention, these tropic countries often have highly expensive electricity.

you can argue that the load barely lasts a couple of hours a day, and sure maybe electricity cost is negligible.
but can you even tolerate such an uncomfortable environment for a couple of hours?


on a side note, my mom's 300W toaster running for a few hours could make the room's ambient temperature rise by 2~3c.
i had to shut the door close whenever she uses that hellish thing.
Edited by epic1337 - 11/7/15 at 3:47am
post #52 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

People here are so clueless its funny.

Let me try for the 10th time. This is LOW POWER process. Its unsuited for Zen. Period.
14nm LPP and LPE have a target voltage of 0.8V. When was the last time you saw a desktop CPU with that?

A10-7870K for example have a Core Voltage of 1.4xV.
You even have binned 15W weak Carrizo APUs like 8800P, but even they surpass 0.8V and is close to 0.9V Core Voltage.

These 14nm products being produced at GloFo is most likely Seattle or Hierofalcon or any other ARM project AMD have going on. They have already taped out ARM and it will undoubtly be one of they new key fields for AMD to get revenue from.
Seeing such comments by leave me wondering if all else you post is either trolling around, or you just have sparks of brain in you. Even if its ARM, unless they make a deal with any of the big phone manufacturers. they will not get much profit.
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post #53 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by awdrifter View Post

The 8800p is using 28nm planar process, this is going to be made on 14nm finFET. It's going to be able to run at much lower voltage. Maybe not 0.8v, but 0.9v is definitely possible.
No no no and no.

Try looking up i7-6700K. Hint: Its 14nm FF and have a core voltage of 1.3V.
Unless you think GloFo will be using magical silicon, there is no way in hell AMD can make Zen on 14nm from them. Sorry buddy.
At 0.8V which is the voltage for the low power process from GloFo, you can maybe get the CPUs to run at 800MHz tops. With 2 cores active.

Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

0.8V is definitely possible, i've had my HD7950 GPU run at 0.95V @ 800Mhz during it's mining days.
while you can argue that its a GPU, the point is that operating at a very low voltage isn't impossible.
and if i remember right there had been some CPUs at ~1Ghz or so capable of running at 0.85V.


edit:
found it, and its even on a 65nm node.

Are you seriously comparing CPUs with GPUs? GPUs run on much lower voltage than CPUs. They run around the 1.0V area and you can undervolt them if you get one with good silicon. There is a huge difference between a chip clocked at 1GHz and a CPU at 3-4GHz.
Edited by iLeakStuff - 11/7/15 at 4:57am
post #54 of 85
Quote:
Try looking up i7-6700K. Hint: Its 14nm FF and have a core voltage of 1.3V.

Sure, but they run 4ghz at 1.1v (a 0.22v undervolt for me, as my 6700k asks for 1.32v at 4ghz and 1.42v at 4.2ghz) happily and there's rumor that the reported voltage is higher than what the core is actually seeing

Their optimal (among the most power efficient voltages) is probably below 1v.
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post #55 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

Are you seriously comparing CPUs with GPUs? GPUs run on much lower voltage than CPUs. They run around the 1.0V area and you can undervolt them if you get one with good silicon. There is a huge difference between a chip clocked at 1GHz and a CPU at 3-4GHz.

of course, the CPU package includes an integrated GPU. rolleyes.gif

and whats your point? a 1Ghz processor with 3times the IPC of a 3Ghz processor is slower?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

Sure, but they run 4ghz at 1.1v (a 0.22v undervolt for me, as my 6700k asks for 1.32v at 4ghz and 1.42v at 4.2ghz) happily and there's rumor that the reported voltage is higher than what the core is actually seeing

Their optimal (among the most power efficient voltages) is probably below 1v.

they actually idle at around 800Mhz 0.7v (0.2v when power-gated), pretty sweet if you ask me.
you could literally try finding out the working voltage at 2Ghz though.
Edited by epic1337 - 11/7/15 at 5:12am
post #56 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

Sure, but they run 4ghz at 1.1v (a 0.22v undervolt for me, as my 6700k asks for 1.32v at 4ghz and 1.42v at 4.2ghz) happily and there's rumor that the reported voltage is higher than what the core is actually seeing

Their optimal (among the most power efficient voltages) is probably below 1v.

I have a lot of experience with mobile CPUs and undervolting there. I have gotten a few under 1.0V, but that brings in a few issues:
First of all they are binned - Desktop chips are not. Meaning you are very lucky if you can find one that can do the same.
Second, mobile chips have a TDP limitation around 45-55W. Desktop CPUs at 95W have a limitation due to clocks and worse silicon, resulting in more leakage and more voltage required to get them to run the same clocks as mobile chips.
Third, even if one got the Zen chips to run at 1.0V (which is still a lot higher than the 14nm LPP process can handle), you risk huge instability issues. One chip may be able to do that, but across millions of chips...Thats a quick way to disaster town with reports coming in from owners that the chips throttle and perform far less than what they should have with proper voltage. Watch Bulldozer bleak in comparison to that scenario. AMD isnt that stupid.
Edited by iLeakStuff - 11/7/15 at 5:10am
post #57 of 85
Quote:
I have gotten a few under 1.0V, but that brings in a few issues:
First of all they are binned - Desktop chips are not. Meaning you are very lucky if you can find one that can do the same.
Second, mobile chips have a TDP limitation around 45-55W. Desktop CPUs at 95W have a limitation due to clocks and worse silicon

That power limit includes iGPU at full load and is just the point that turbo clocks will drop down to maintain package power at that level or lower for long-term loads. For desktops, it's often set way higher than neccesary because there's no need to power throttle almost all of the time.

It's not so hard to go below 1v with Intel's finfet chips - Ivy, Haswell, Broadwell, Skylake
Edited by Cyro999 - 11/7/15 at 5:24am
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post #58 of 85
nvidias at 14 or 16nm?
post #59 of 85
Both AMD and Nvidia is at 16nm with AMD using a few ARM SOCs on 14nm. Nvidia could be using 14nm for Tegra based on Pascal but their relationship with TSMC probably means they will go with 16nm.
They have both taped out products at TSMC
Edited by iLeakStuff - 11/7/15 at 9:11am
post #60 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by warm View Post

nvidias at 14 or 16nm?

Projected is 16nm through TSMC
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