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[Tech Report] GloFo successfully builds AMD chips on 14-nm FinFET LPP process - Page 7

post #61 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenge View Post

Not to mention that their x86 cross-licensing deal doesn't allow for a "change of control" (read: buyout or a merger with larger company) as well...

I am so tired of this incorrectly being stated over and over, It has been covered time and time again.

The x86 license agreement has clause for a situation where the control of AMD changes hand. In fact it explicitly states that Intel must negotiate and in "Good Faith" with the new owners to license x86. It also states that if the U.S. Government feels they aren't really giving it a proper effort, that they can actually step in and make sure the licensing takes place.

Translation?

There is pretty much zero risk of loss of x86 licensing with a new owner of AMD.
    
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post #62 of 85
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Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

No no no and no.

Try looking up i7-6700K. Hint: Its 14nm FF and have a core voltage of 1.3V.
Unless you think GloFo will be using magical silicon, there is no way in hell AMD can make Zen on 14nm from them. Sorry buddy.
At 0.8V which is the voltage for the low power process from GloFo, you can maybe get the CPUs to run at 800MHz tops. With 2 cores active.
Are you seriously comparing CPUs with GPUs? GPUs run on much lower voltage than CPUs. They run around the 1.0V area and you can undervolt them if you get one with good silicon. There is a huge difference between a chip clocked at 1GHz and a CPU at 3-4GHz.

You're comparing Intel's process to GloFo/Samsung's process. If you look at even the 14nm LPE process, Samsung have already scaled it at less than 1.0v. I'm sure we'll need more than 1.0v when overclocking, but for default voltage I can see it at 0.9v for some of the SKUs.
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post #63 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by awdrifter View Post

You're comparing Intel's process to GloFo/Samsung's process. If you look at even the 14nm LPE process, Samsung have already scaled it at less than 1.0v. I'm sure we'll need more than 1.0v when overclocking, but for default voltage I can see it at 0.9v for some of the SKUs.

Samsung havent really scaled anything. There wasnt a 1.xV process to begin with.

Read the papers, they are available everywhere. LPP and LPE is for connectivity hardware such as modems, 3G chips, bluetooth, wireless hardware, USB etc and SOCs that run on very low voltage and use <5W.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prjindigo View Post

LPP means low power performance. E means efficiency/economy. lemme ask you a question, if an 8 core Zen can do 32 things at once with a 40% IP over intel chips and only hits 3.2ghz stock, where's the downside? 32 things at 4.2 instead of 16 things at 3.2.... it all figures up. You KNOW the only reason intel is still using dual-task "hyper"threading is because nobody's forced them to fight.
No.

LPE stands for Low Power Early
LPP stands for Low Power Plus

Everything is low power and 0.8V
Edited by iLeakStuff - 11/8/15 at 3:37am
post #64 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

No no no and no.

Try looking up i7-6700K. Hint: Its 14nm FF and have a core voltage of 1.3V.
Unless you think GloFo will be using magical silicon, there is no way in hell AMD can make Zen on 14nm from them. Sorry buddy.
At 0.8V which is the voltage for the low power process from GloFo, you can maybe get the CPUs to run at 800MHz tops. With 2 cores active.
Are you seriously comparing CPUs with GPUs? GPUs run on much lower voltage than CPUs. They run around the 1.0V area and you can undervolt them if you get one with good silicon. There is a huge difference between a chip clocked at 1GHz and a CPU at 3-4GHz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

Samsung havent really scaled anything. There wasnt a 1.xV process to begin with.

Read the papers, they are available everywhere. LPP and LPE is for connectivity hardware such as modems, 3G chips, bluetooth, wireless hardware, USB etc and SOCs that run on very low voltage and use <5W.
No.

LPE stands for Low Power Early
LPP stands for Low Power Plus

Everything is low power and 0.8V

You make it sound like you know what you are talking about. So certain. If Zen is not using 14nmFF LPP,then what will it use? You think GF would spends millions on a process that is basically the same as LPE? You are delusional,or deliberately trying to mislead.

Anyone that knows anything knows Zen will be14nm LPP.
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post #65 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

LPE stands for Low Power Early
LPP stands for Low Power Plus

Everything is low power and 0.8V
The 14nm LPP node at GF can reach 2.4GHz switching speeds at 0.72V in a built product. And the maximum voltage they advise for now is 0.88V. Going by this it is very clear that only server versions of Zen can do with this node as there will not be enough stretch to reach anything above 3.0GHz unless you completely ignore power consumption, increase voltage and clocks.

Therefore I think they will try using these for their gpus and perhaps if there is no other way still go to TSMC for their CPU. (but they will do whatever it takes to have it at GF unless that is impossible)
post #66 of 85
I don't know if this means anything, but if Samsung can't do <1.0v the name Exynos will be irrelevant by now.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9330/exynos-7420-deep-dive

7420 is already incorporated as part of the Galaxy S6 phone. Remains to be seen whether the Android community can see any flaws in this closed source design eventually, but still.

Granted this is a mobile chip and not a desktop chip like Zen, so the only argument here is whether a desktop Zen can take a mobile design process for another platform and come out of it looking decent.
post #67 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

The 14nm LPP node at GF can reach 2.4GHz switching speeds at 0.72V in a built product. And the maximum voltage they advise for now is 0.88V. Going by this it is very clear that only server versions of Zen can do with this node as there will not be enough stretch to reach anything above 3.0GHz unless you completely ignore power consumption, increase voltage and clocks.

Therefore I think they will try using these for their gpus and perhaps if there is no other way still go to TSMC for their CPU. (but they will do whatever it takes to have it at GF unless that is impossible)

GPUs and dense CPU packages, something like 16~32 core chips running at <2.8Ghz max.
this should be doable with their node, and their main target would probably intel's Phi series.
Edited by epic1337 - 11/8/15 at 6:50am
post #68 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

The 14nm LPP node at GF can reach 2.4GHz switching speeds at 0.72V in a built product. And the maximum voltage they advise for now is 0.88V. Going by this it is very clear that only server versions of Zen can do with this node as there will not be enough stretch to reach anything above 3.0GHz unless you completely ignore power consumption, increase voltage and clocks.

Therefore I think they will try using these for their gpus and perhaps if there is no other way still go to TSMC for their CPU. (but they will do whatever it takes to have it at GF unless that is impossible)

What is your point?
I don`t know why it is so hard for some people to understand basic logic but for the 20th time: 14nm is LOW POWER.

You find Snapdragon chips like 810 that do 2.4GHz or the upcoming 14nm Snapdragon 820 that clocks around 2.2GHz. Why can this one run 14nm and still be clocked so high? Because its a low power chip, a SOC rated around 3W.

Do you think Zen is exclusively SOC chips? No. They will be easily 50W+ for desktop, meaning you can forget about 0.8V or a TDP of 3W.
Which is why Zen is 16nm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwoodz View Post


You make it sound like you know what you are talking about. So certain. If Zen is not using 14nmFF LPP,then what will it use? You think GF would spends millions on a process that is basically the same as LPE? You are delusional,or deliberately trying to mislead.

Anyone that knows anything knows Zen will be14nm LPP.
Oh here comes the personal attacks because you dont understand semiconductor. rolleyes.gif

News flash:
GlobalFoundries is allocating 2 of their 9 fabs for 14nm along with Samsung. The rest will not be manufacturing 14nm. Why is that? Because they see money and experience to be made along with Samsung and want to have a foot in different processes.

Oh btw: GlobalFoundries is a tiny little boy compared to TSMC. They take whatever business they can get wink.gif
Edited by iLeakStuff - 11/8/15 at 9:59am
post #69 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

What is your point?
I don`t know why it is so hard for some people to understand basic logic but for the 20th time: 14nm is LOW POWER.

You find Snapdragon chips like 810 that do 2.4GHz or the upcoming 14nm Snapdragon 820 that clocks around 2.2GHz. Why can this one run 14nm and still be clocked so high? Because its a low power chip, a SOC rated around 3W.

Do you think Zen is exclusively SOC chips? No. They will be easily 50W+ for desktop, meaning you can forget about 0.8V or a TDP of 3W.
Which is why Zen is 16nm.
Oh here comes the personal attacks because you dont understand semiconductor. rolleyes.gif

News flash:
GlobalFoundries is allocating 2 of their 9 fabs for 14nm along with Samsung. The rest will not be manufacturing 14nm. Why is that? Because they see money and experience to be made along with Samsung and want to have a foot in different processes.

Oh btw: GlobalFoundries is a tiny little boy compared to TSMC. They take whatever business they can get wink.gif


LOL! LPE is NOT LPP.
So you are saying AMD is going to TSMC for ZEN? That has never happened, ZEN is already out with ES. GF LPP is in production. You connect the dots, and ignore any fantasies you might have. TSMC has NEVER produced a cpu for AMD.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1579499/yahoo-others-amd-zen-cpus-said-to-meet-internal-expectations-with-no-bottlenecks/40_20#post_24583003

I did not insult you,just your unsubstantiated opinions. PROVE me wrong.thumb.gif
Edited by Redwoodz - 11/8/15 at 10:17am
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post #70 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwoodz View Post

LOL! LPE is NOT LPP.
So you are saying AMD is going to TSMC for ZEN? That has never happened, ZEN is already out with ES. GF LPP is in production. You connect the dots, and ignore any fantasies you might have. TSMC has NEVER produced a cpu for AMD.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1579499/yahoo-others-amd-zen-cpus-said-to-meet-internal-expectations-with-no-bottlenecks/40_20#post_24583003

I did not insult you,just your unsubstantiated opinions. PROVE me wrong.thumb.gif
Unsubstantiated opinions? Its me that have proposed proof that 14nm for Zen is impossible with current 14nm process, while you an some of the other people here have still yet to put out an argument to why its possible technically. doh.gif

I already have proof that AMD is going with 16nm for Zen, but its much more fun to watch forum members like yourself and infamous sites like wccftech keep writing that 14nm will happen for Zen.
Edited by iLeakStuff - 11/8/15 at 10:49am
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