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[YAHOO & Others] AMD Zen CPUs said to meet internal expectations with no bottlenecks - Page 6

post #51 of 82
For me it's the transparency.

They made a point twice now, to clarify their gains with this architecture. In the original "40% increase" slide, they went out of their way to state those gains were over Excavator, not original Bulldozer. Now regardless of how you feel about that whole debacle, is an important distinction to make in regards to gains. That's a 15 to 20% difference in where one could reasonably expect it to land performance wise.

The other thing was them clarifying that the gains are there regardless of node. That right there gave me more faith in Zen than I've had in any AMD product since Hawaii. That is something they could have easily hidden behind if the chip was not up to snuff. The fact that they had the confidence to clarify that little point, gives me faith they actually have a reason to point this out.

I'm also a big Keller fan, and this is something he has worked on since 2012. Considering he is responsible for some of the best overclocking chips ever made, I've gone from being intriuged to having a lot more faith in this than I probably should in regards to not just it's raw performance, but it's overclocking potential as well.

I honestly, cannot wait till someone sneaks an Engineering sample bench at some point in the next few months, and I can admit right now that I haven't felt that way about a CPU in a loooong time.
Edited by yawa - 11/7/15 at 4:48pm
post #52 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post

I think you're more charitable than most. While I want a competitive AMD, I'm not about to buy a mediocre product to make that happen. I think the best plausible scenario is AMD offering something close in performance but significantly cheaper, with Intel forced to drop prices in response. I think it's more likely that Intel does not lower prices, but may let AMD have a small niche below the i5 price point.

Mobile products may be more interesting, with AMD finally on a similar manufacturing process. Should catch up a bit on energy efficiency.

I agree with you here, it's in AMDs best interest and our best interest to not support them if their products suck. The longer they limp around on life support, the longer it'll take someone to buy them and start making them competitive.

However, if they released a chip that was 5% faster than my 5930k in encoding and gaming, I'd buy it in a heart beat.
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post #53 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by looncraz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

Every server based system Ive ever owned worked out of the box. Get ram that is specced for the MB/CPU and it works. No toying with settings to make things work. Overall system performance is also usually higher than stock mass market parts.

Need to do video rendering/editing? Just throw all 16-32 cores (32-64 threads) at the task. The speed puts even the highest clocked LN2 bench rigs to shame.

Need more ram? Registered/ECC ram comes in sizes much larger than normal RAM usually. Up to double the density of desktop ram and you get double the ram slots on dual socket platforms.

Need SAS? Most workstation/server boards come with some form of SAS controller.

10Gig ethernet? Check.

Long term support? Check.

Then you've been lucky, frankly, or have never dealt with the cheaper/lower-end solutions. But more cores doesn't work for most people, they need higher clocks and rarely need more RAM than you can get on consumer boards.

The most popular server motherboard on NewEgg, however, still only supports 32GB, only has 2 USB 2.0 ports, three gigabit network interfaces, a graphics chip the manufacturer doesn't seem to admit exists - which is okay, since it only supports SVGA output anyway, no sound card, only 2+1 power stages, has RAM compatibility issues, has issues with one of the LAN ports causing instability issues, lacks drivers for many OSes (incl Windows Server 2012, IIRC), has limited socket spacing (though does fit the stock Intel heatsink, which is a nice change), the SuperMicro website is horrible for finding the right drivers, has a finicky RAID solution, especially finicky when using SSDs apparently, etc... and costs $174

The top consumer pick, the AsRock Z77 Extreme4, has a 32GB RAM capacity, 2x USB2.0, 4xUSB3.0 (+front panel connections for both), DVI+HDMI+SVGA, optical audio + 7.1 analog audio, gigabit LAN, 6 PCI-e slots, fits into more cases, has 8+4 power phases, has fantastic RAM compatibility, has a fantastic layout, has a better warranty, etc.. and costs $144.

Now, if I was building a mission critical computer, I'd absolutely jump to ECC RAM, which limits my motherboard choices. If I absolutely needed to scale beyond 8 cores, then I'd obviously be limited... but beyond that, consumer boards are simply better.

Someone who prizes stability and reliability over performance (single thread anyway) to the point that they buy buffered ECC does not buy $200 motherboards.

He is completely correct. Server grade equipment does not cost the same as consumer. The fact you are trying to compare in the same price range to prove a point, all on it's own, shows how wrong you are. You didn't even try to list the things he did with your consumer board either, probably because they do not exist in the E3/i-series chipsets.

Also as a side note, holding up an AsRock, to claim superiority, is hilarious. It is not "Top Pick" because it's actually good/great by consumer motherboard standards, it's top pick because it's cheap and won't explode in the first few hours.
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post #54 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imglidinhere View Post

It can't end up like bulldozer. AMD knows they're done if this flops, so they're pulling all the stops with such a chip.

I will HAPPILY go back to AMD the day they have something even remotely competitive against Intel.

and I will happily go over Intel if it wasn't that expensive...

and I'm not talking just about the CPU by itself
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post #55 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Someone who prizes stability and reliability over performance (single thread anyway) to the point that they buy buffered ECC does not buy $200 motherboards.

He is completely correct. Server grade equipment does not cost the same as consumer. The fact you are trying to compare in the same price range to prove a point, all on it's own, shows how wrong you are. You didn't even try to list the things he did with your consumer board either, probably because they do not exist in the E3/i-series chipsets.

Also as a side note, holding up an AsRock, to claim superiority, is hilarious. It is not "Top Pick" because it's actually good/great by consumer motherboard standards, it's top pick because it's cheap and won't explode in the first few hours.

I chose the boards I did because they're the most popular, no other reason.

The most popular consumer board is cheaper and generally much more properly suited for general purpose computing builds.

If money is no object, and performance is not important, and all you want is high thread counts and ECC RAM, then obviously your choice is made. Stability, however, is only slightly improved as memory failures are quite rare with any quality RAM and quality consumer boards, at any price range, are superior to server boards for most needs.

With a server motherboard you are forced to install sound cards, USB cards often enough, and often deal with software compatibility and support issues which would never be an issue with a mainstream board. If you have a farm of these systems it is less of a hassle because you just solve them once and translate the solution and embed into your updated system images.

It is superiority for purpose. The proper tools for the job.
post #56 of 82
WOW! I am so excited!

Zen is going to absolutely destroy Intel.
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post #57 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by jologskyblues View Post

WOW! I am so excited!

Zen is going to absolutely destroy Intel.

Not a chance.

Equality with Haswell?? Quite likely (not guaranteed, there are many factors for performance). Reaching parity with Skylake? Out of the question unless Zen is an overclocking magician and doesn't give up any of the claimed IPC gains in the process.
post #58 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by looncraz View Post

Not a chance.

Equality with Haswell?? Quite likely (not guaranteed, there are many factors for performance). Reaching parity with Skylake? Out of the question unless Zen is an overclocking magician and doesn't give up any of the claimed IPC gains in the process.
He was sarcastic. What's worse than AMD is people who don't understand a joke. biggrin.gif
post #59 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by yawa View Post

For me it's the transparency.

They made a point twice now, to clarify their gains with this architecture. In the original "40% increase" slide, they went out of their way to state those gains were over Excavator, not original Bulldozer. Now regardless of how you feel about that whole debacle, is an important distinction to make in regards to gains. That's a 15 to 20% difference in where one could reasonably expect it to land performance wise.

The other thing was them clarifying that the gains are there regardless of node. That right there gave me more faith in Zen than I've had in any AMD product since Hawaii. That is something they could have easily hidden behind if the chip was not up to snuff. The fact that they had the confidence to clarify that little point, gives me faith they actually have a reason to point this out.

I'm also a big Keller fan, and this is something he has worked on since 2012. Considering he is responsible for some of the best overclocking chips ever made, I've gone from being intriuged to having a lot more faith in this than I probably should in regards to not just it's raw performance, but it's overclocking potential as well.

I honestly, cannot wait till someone sneaks an Engineering sample bench at some point in the next few months, and I can admit right now that I haven't felt that way about a CPU in a loooong time.

Since we know this chip on AMD's front is ground breaking for AMD. I really want some die shots. Supposedly defies traditional CPU design.
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post #60 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateZ View Post

He was sarcastic. What's worse than AMD is people who don't understand a joke. biggrin.gif

The problem with sarcasm is that it doesn't translate to text.

It could have been a veiled attack, a joke, or even serious. There's no way to know without indicators in the message, which are all absent.
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