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ZEN - Hyper Thread - Page 242

post #2411 of 2415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul17041993 View Post

Interesting, AMD may have fine-tuned the circuitry in the silicon to have just enough gaps for 4GHz only, which seems counter-productive but likely how they can have it run so efficiently and be so cost effective... or it's simply the limit for the fabrication before it just bleeds to world's end.

Guess I'll just have to see when I eventually get to mess around with it, see what happens when I do what.




You can get more. You just have to go crazy with the voltage.
 
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post #2412 of 2415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prophet4NO1 View Post




You can get more. You just have to go crazy with the voltage.

Yea, which is basically what I'm saying, after 4GHz the voltage required skyrockets simply because there's too much leakage. Alternatively there may be some other flaw in the design somewhere that behaves erratic after 4GHz...

This is somewhat similar to the problem bulldozer had, where after 4.5GHz you would reach a tipping point that you'd need a lot more voltage to keep going, though it wasn't nearly as extreme as ryzen's seems to be...

How well do they clock when disabling the second cluster though? compared to all enabled.
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post #2413 of 2415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul17041993 View Post

Interesting, AMD may have fine-tuned the circuitry in the silicon to have just enough gaps for 4GHz only, which seems counter-productive but likely how they can have it run so efficiently and be so cost effective... or it's simply the limit for the fabrication before it just bleeds to world's end.

Guess I'll just have to see when I eventually get to mess around with it, see what happens when I do what.

I think the limiting factor is in the caches. I think they have a pretty hard limit. AMD's error detection causes the CPU to immediately shut down (this thing is absolutely riddled with error detection logic).

I bet if we could disable the L3 we'd get higher clocks... but if the issue is in the L2 ... we're toast until the next revision.

14nm LPP transistors switch plenty fast - but Zen was always strictly designed for 4Ghz (from Keller himself)... so they achieved their goal, tuned for that goal, and didn't worry about anything beyond that goal.

For a ground-up design on a new process on a new platform... coming from where AMD came from... this is an absolutely astonishing feat.

Haswell IPC, superior MT, far superior SMT, superior power efficiency, and workable clocks.... flatly astonishing. thumb.gif

As soon as critical apps learn to not treat Ryzen like it has a monolithic 16MB of L3 and 16 cores, we'll see some dramatic improvements. I can't wait for the patches to start coming in.
post #2414 of 2415
Resonant mesh system keeps W down, but at high clocks probably not so effective - mistuned resonant system
    
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post #2415 of 2415
Quote:
Originally Posted by looncraz View Post

I think the limiting factor is in the caches. I think they have a pretty hard limit. AMD's error detection causes the CPU to immediately shut down (this thing is absolutely riddled with error detection logic).

I bet if we could disable the L3 we'd get higher clocks... but if the issue is in the L2 ... we're toast until the next revision.

14nm LPP transistors switch plenty fast - but Zen was always strictly designed for 4Ghz (from Keller himself)... so they achieved their goal, tuned for that goal, and didn't worry about anything beyond that goal.

For a ground-up design on a new process on a new platform... coming from where AMD came from... this is an absolutely astonishing feat.

Haswell IPC, superior MT, far superior SMT, superior power efficiency, and workable clocks.... flatly astonishing. thumb.gif

As soon as critical apps learn to not treat Ryzen like it has a monolithic 16MB of L3 and 16 cores, we'll see some dramatic improvements. I can't wait for the patches to start coming in.

By looking at the latency comparison compared to intels I'd say it's in the L2. Ryzen's core latency is insanely small and probably contributes a lot to instability above 4GHz, much like it's impossible to overclock RAM without touching the timings.

I also actually wonder how far people have gotten with auto-overclocking like in MSI's Xpower, that thing's pretty insane and has a knob with 11 stages of 50MHz increments...
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