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[Guru3D] AMD faces Lawsuit over Core Count on Bulldozer - Page 13

post #121 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithh View Post

...

What wiki has to say;

A multi-core processor is a single computing component with two or more independent actual processing units (called "cores"), which are the units that read and execute program instructions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-core_processor
...

Not only have you attempted to quote Wikipedia to prove your point but you didn't even bother to check the underlying source. Because it doesn't say any of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithh View Post

...The first multicore processor we've seen were just 2 CPU's glued together with stuff like L3 cache being left out and shared across them, it has been like that for the past 10 years orso. There's no reason why the marketing clowns at AMD should redefine what a core is just for the sake of boosting their sales.

There's nothing to redefine, because there is no set definition of a "core."
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post #122 of 333
The funny thing is, if AMD marketed them as 4 core 8 thread CPU's people would not have bashed them so hard. XD
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post #123 of 333
This is not worth the effort. Attempting to make a point to a forum troll is like mud wrestling with a pig. Sooner or later you realize the pig is enjoying itself.
Edited by Questors - 11/7/15 at 1:56pm
post #124 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit_reaper View Post

Coffee is made by pouring boiling water over coffee beans. If you don't know that water that was boiling only moments ago can cause third degree burns then you are the one that is uneducated. Can is the operative word here. In most cases when people spill on them selves the coffee cools quite a bit as it splashes and is whipped away very quickly and so people usually escape with either first or second degree burns only.

I know many people who would out right complain if the coffee was not served "piping hot" as that is how freshly made and poured coffee is.

Now if the coffee was specifically marketed as being ready to drink temperature then anyone burned by it would actually have a valid case.
coffee is best served 170f that's what piping hot is
185 ish to make then 165-70 in the cup ,to stand at 180+ makes it suck for 1 main reason.....it evaporates at such speed it becomes "stronger" and loses its natural falvors(even if it is a dark roast)
not only that but it burned her legs and va jay jay 3rd degree like sorry that's not just a red mark
basically you drink it that hot and you wont taste it anyway
it was improperly served was that simple
as for this stupid lawuit...no comment lol biggrin.gif
post #125 of 333
Water has 2.5x higher specific heat than oil, so you are either getting spilled three times the volume, or temperature of frying oil. A cup of 170°C(280°F) oil wouldn't heal unless grafted supposing you survive kidney failure.
Edited by mtcn77 - 11/7/15 at 2:03pm
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post #126 of 333
So whats the difference between saying GTX 970 have 4GB VRAM where 0.5GB of it is running slower resulting in some few scenarios where the total performance is less than what it should be, and a Bulldozer chip with 8 cores where 2 of them doesnt perform like 2 cores in some few scenarios?

Do I smell double standard among AMD fans? Shocking rolleyes.gif
Edited by iLeakStuff - 11/7/15 at 2:29pm
post #127 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenFaux View Post

Not only have you attempted to quote Wikipedia to prove your point but you didn't even bother to check the underlying source. Because it doesn't say any of that.

Actually it does. You should by now agree a CPU at least has a front and a back-end.

"A multi-core processor is a single computing component with two or more independent actual processing units (called "cores"), which are the units that read and execute program instructions."

FE reads, back-end executes.

"A dual core set-up is somewhat comparable to having multiple, separate processors installed in the same computer, but because the two processors are actually plugged into the same socket, the connection between them is faster."
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenFaux View Post

There's nothing to redefine, because there is no set definition of a "core."

Alright, truth is that you only have 4 processors available in a 8350.
post #128 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by azanimefan View Post

considering every core in the bulldozer cpu design meets every engineering definition of cpu core in known existence i'd say this is doomed to fail. Then again i used to think that people couldn't possibly win liability suits when they spill coffee on themselves because the coffee is hot and there are no warnings telling them that it might be hot. So maybe this ambulance chaser will land the planned billions of dollars he's looking for and will shut down AMD in the process.

after all if someone can win a dumb suit like the aforementioned "coffee" burn suit, then pretty much anything is possible.

Maybe you dont know anything about the coffee lawsiut either.

 

If you have Netflix I recommend you watch the "Hot Coffee" documentary. It's actually pretty interesting and it might change your mind.

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post #129 of 333
So... I didn't read the whole 125 posts until now, but I'm going to guess that the vast majority will have agreed on the following:



1. Yes, AMD's marketing may be a little on the 'wise guy' side of things, and that applies to both Bulldozer but also the 12 cores that they claim that Steamroller APUs have;

2. Notwithstanding the above, a Bulldozer CPU still has eight integer cores and as far as I know they can work simultaneously despite the shared fetcher and decoder per module;

3. The fact that an eight core desktop AMD CPU doesn't perform on par with an Intel desktop octacore is a meritless legal discussion, it's a technical discussion; one could also ask why the eight Bobcat CPU cores in the PS4 / Xbox One don't perform the same as a desktop class CPU or why ARM CPUs don't either, and the answer would be the same: different architecture, different aim, different success in making it happen, etc, none of it has to do with whether it has eight integer cores or not;

4. The oldest definition for a CPU is an integer core, everything else is secondary. The caches are to help feed the cores work faster, but they don't necessarily have to be on-die, the same can be said about the memory controller, the GPU and even the FPU; you can do the same stuff an FPU does on an integer core, just a lot slower, you can say the same about doing the work of the GPU on the CPU, possible, but a lot slower.

The only thing that matters then is if the integer cores in the Bulldozer architecture can actually process eight integer threads simultaneously. Unless this guy can prove that the fetcher and decoder are alternating between cores and they are effectively never working in parallel - and even then, even if the work is being distributed in such a manner, the cores are usually working on different kinds of things, some take longer, others not so much, so most of the time they will be working in parallel, and at most one of them will be stalled for a little while and them resume once it's fed instructions again.

Or simply put, imagine it was the other way around: AMD had a more advanced manufacturing process that allowed for both high clocks and low power consumption. Imagine a 22nm Bulldozer CPU clocked at 4 Ghz and 4.4 Turbo (or even faster on both accounts) in 2011, it would have been competitive against SB, probably even winning some tests and this discussion wouldn't be happening at all. What I think he is trying to do is mix real world performance with technical claims. It's not going to work.
Edited by tpi2007 - 11/7/15 at 2:54pm
 
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post #130 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

So whats the difference between saying GTX 970 have 4GB VRAM where 0.5GB of it is running slower resulting in some few scenarios where the total performance is less than what it should be, and a Bulldozer chip with 8 cores where 2 of them doesnt perform like 2 cores in some few scenarios?

Do I smell double standard among AMD fans? Shocking rolleyes.gif
For the 970, the stated specs were not the actual product's specs.

Arguments over the definition of "core" are a much more subjective matter than the simple fact that the 970:

1) shipped with fewer ROPs than claimed
2) shipped with less cache than claimed
3) cannot reach the claimed VRAM speed of 224 GB/s
4) has a VRAM partition that operates at just 28 GB/s, half the speed of a card from 2007 like the 8800 GT.
5) has XOR contention between the 196 GB/s partition and the 28 GB/s partition, making the 28 GB/s partition slow the other partition the more it's accessed


On an important, but more subjective note, the situation in the industry also matters.

1) The 970 was released without anyone knowing about its brand-new VRAM partitioning scheme.

2) It was released into the enthusiast space, a space with an expectation of performance well beyond 28 GB/s VRAM speed.

3) The 970 was released at a time when the high-end card from Nvidia had the same amount of VRAM, making many people choose the 970 — thinking they were getting a great value. I myself argued that the 980 was a poor value for its price given that it had the same amount of VRAM. Little did I know that everyone, myself included, was being duped by stealth gimping. As a result of the perceived 4 GB value comparison, customers often bought pairs of 970s for SLI instead of getting a single 980 or an AMD card or set of cards.

Anandtech pretended that there was no reason for Nvidia to want to hide the true specs of the 970 but point #3 clearly gives the company one. It also gives a justification that explains why the company chose to hide the true specs for so long. It defies reason, the explanation the company gave — that its engineering staff came up with this new design all on its own, one that hampered performance for an enthusiast-level product, and hid that design from everyone else at the company. Give me a break.

Comparing the 970 with AMD FX is not very fruitful. AMD was very transparent about the FX's design. Review sites didn't find out many months after it was selling what its real specs were.
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