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[Guru3D] AMD faces Lawsuit over Core Count on Bulldozer - Page 22

post #211 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

So yes you're right and AMD is very much right, because in methodology if we go by anyone else's points of reference a Core 2 Quad was just a fancy dual core.

Can you count?



http://www.anandtech.com/show/5174/why-ivy-bridge-is-still-quad-core

4 front-ends, 4 back-ends making it trutly a quad-core unlike AMD offering only 4 front-ends for a supposedly 8-core.
post #212 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithh View Post

Can you count?



http://www.anandtech.com/show/5174/why-ivy-bridge-is-still-quad-core

4 front-ends, 4 back-ends making it trutly a quad-core unlike AMD offering only 4 front-ends for a supposedly 8-core.

But it's still a two cores on a single module. You should realize the definition of a core on processor is something that independently threads executions. That's all! Yeah it's 4 modules, but it's still eight cores. Why do you think all those little interconnected cores on a GPU are still called a core?

You can have as many back & front ends as you want! That is irrelevant!

What about ARM Octo-core processors like Snapdragon 810! Those look an awful lot like bulldozer to me! Well more APU than bulldozer.

DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON THE A7 or A8 BY APPLE!!!

Apple_A7-A8_Dies.jpg

The fact is that the more we go SoC the more we're going to look like a AMD's bulldozer design! Yeah it's slow, but with the proper modifications and designs it's not as sketchy.
Edited by SpeedyVT - 11/9/15 at 7:34pm
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post #213 of 333
Or the Sparc T5, which only has 1FPU if I recall correctly.

What, you think a server CPU needs an FPU? Nope, database operations and file transfer operations don't. :3
post #214 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

But it's still a two cores on a single module.

That has been proven wrong as the module alone is not meeting the CMP spec, which even AMD admitted a module was not CMP and yes that spec exists just like SMT & CMT exists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

You should realize the definition of a core on processor is something that independently threads executions. That's all! Yeah it's 4 modules, but it's still eight cores.

We've been calling the actual CPU a core since the beginning, Bulldozer is not a 8x CPU. If we're going to argue semantics about "theres no definition for a core", I'll just use the term CPU instead and we get to the same point again that a bulldozer module isn't a 2x CPU or a dual core.

Also a single core CPU, no CMT or SMT can process more than one thread at a time. So I'd say think again about your definition of what a core is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

That's all! Yeah it's 4 modules, but it's still eight cores.

If an ALU cluster, made out of arith logic units are cores, your logic essentially comes down that your fetching/decoding/control/floating point unit and so on are all cores. So a BD module has at least 6 or 7 cores.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

You can have as many back & front ends as you want! That is irrelevant!

So you can have 15 front-ends and no back-end (execution resources) at all? How can you have a quad core with just 4 front-ends and only 2 back-ends available? 2 front-ends wont do anything more than wasting space. Reverse the logic, you can't have a quad core with 2 front-ends and 4 back-ends. Again a CPU needs to have at least a front and a back-end, there's a reason why we're using these fancy terms for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

What about ARM Octo-core processors like 810! Those look an awful lot like bulldozer to me! Well more APU than bulldozer.

Just like you've been thinking a C2Q is a dual core? Correct me if I'm wrong, isnt that SOC like arm's big.little? 4 main cores and 4 low power cores, kinda trying to take advantage of race-to-idle theory. How exactly is this even close to Bulldozer? It's not even CMT by a long shot.

https://www.arm.com/products/processors/technologies/biglittleprocessing.php

That SOC can at least be seen as a real 8 core.
post #215 of 333
It has 16 mb of cache. Definitely multitasking - run a cinebench next to winrar and see whether it can take on multitasking or not.
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post #216 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithh View Post

That has been proven wrong as the module alone is not meeting the CMP spec, which even AMD admitted a module was not CMP and yes that spec exists just like SMT & CMT exists.
We've been calling the actual CPU a core since the beginning, Bulldozer is not a 8x CPU. If we're going to argue semantics about "theres no definition for a core", I'll just use the term CPU instead and we get to the same point again that a bulldozer module isn't a 2x CPU or a dual core.

Also a single core CPU, no CMT or SMT can process more than one thread at a time. So I'd say think again about your definition of what a core is.
If an ALU cluster, made out of arith logic units are cores, your logic essentially comes down that your fetching/decoding/control/floating point unit and so on are all cores. So a BD module has at least 6 or 7 cores.
So you can have 15 front-ends and no back-end (execution resources) at all? How can you have a quad core with just 4 front-ends and only 2 back-ends available? 2 front-ends wont do anything more than wasting space. Reverse the logic, you can't have a quad core with 2 front-ends and 4 back-ends. Again a CPU needs to have at least a front and a back-end, there's a reason why we're using these fancy terms for it.
Just like you've been thinking a C2Q is a dual core? Correct me if I'm wrong, isnt that SOC like arm's big.little? 4 main cores and 4 low power cores, kinda trying to take advantage of race-to-idle theory. How exactly is this even close to Bulldozer? It's not even CMT by a long shot.

https://www.arm.com/products/processors/technologies/biglittleprocessing.php

That SOC can at least be seen as a real 8 core.

I think you took my front & back end access too literal. It obviously needs at least one of each. All my statements are facts. What we define as a core is up to manufacturer, there is no clear definition.
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post #217 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithh View Post

Can you count?



http://www.anandtech.com/show/5174/why-ivy-bridge-is-still-quad-core

4 front-ends, 4 back-ends making it trutly a quad-core unlike AMD offering only 4 front-ends for a supposedly 8-core.
Warning: Big! (Click to show)

It's dual dual-cores. By that logic we can say that one of these with two of these is a 16-core CPU.

(Yes, I'm being facetious, but the Core2Quad is certainly not a true quad-core CPU if Bulldozer is being counted by the modules. It's just a fancy multi-socket CPU.)
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post #218 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

It obviously needs at least one of each.

Nice to see you agreeing bulldozer needs another front-end to be a true 8x CPU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

All my statements are facts.

Like what? On the hand of an ARM's dieshot you're saying it's a bulldozer-like design? If that's a fact, then you're being funny.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

What we define as a core is up to manufacturer, there is no clear definition.

After they've been calling the ALU cluster for roughly 15 years orso an ALU cluster, they're calling it now a core for a marketing move. After calling their 2x, 3x and 6x CPU's a dual, triple or hexa-core for almost 10 years - they started calling their 4x CPU with CMT technology an octocore which one model barely hits the 5GHz advertised speed. Yes it's up to them to define what a core is. And yes ONLY AMD is allowed to add the gpu cores on top of the CPU and classify it as a 12-core CPU. AMD's GPU cores are now officially CPU cores and their CPU cores are now GPU cores, it's up to the manufacturer to define it.
post #219 of 333
Funny. Even Intel nor AMD will say the exact definition of a core but a lot of people on this forum are 140% sure what a core exactly is. rolleyes.gif
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post #220 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadRabbit View Post

Funny. Even Intel nor AMD will say the exact definition of a core but a lot of people on this forum are 140% sure what a core exactly is. rolleyes.gif

Nah, just a few very ignorant yet very vocal and stubborn people.
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