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[Guru3D] AMD faces Lawsuit over Core Count on Bulldozer - Page 8

post #71 of 333
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I think this overall falls more under false advertisement more than false technical specs.

What I think the lawsuit is about, that if a regular person, is looking for a multi core CPU to runs 8 dedicated calculations on it (lets say a program which runs 8 very complex mathematical calculations), and he runs it with 256 bit integers, he will suddenly be running only 4 dedicated runs instead of 8, so he will have less performance than he expect he will have.
That person will not understand what is going on, and he will be angry that he got an 8 core CPU, but he can only run 4 dedicated calculations.

This I think is the basis of the lawsuit. That a normal person, who doesn't understand how CPUs are built, or the implications, will find out after he bought the CPU, that it was actually not the right CPU. And since that person is not a technical savvy person, he will want his money back.

When people took to a lawsuit on nvidia, because the card was so called only using 3.5GB, well, the card did have 4GB, it could use all 4GB if pushed, the card did perform is it should.
So on that same basis, you might also consider putting a lawsuit against AMD, that they did not enclose that to run 8 fully dedicated threads on the CPU, it requires to stay at the 128bit integer only.
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post #72 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Considering that AMD didn't invent the first multi-core processor, it isn't up to them to define what a core means.

it is when it's their architecture.
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post #73 of 333
8 cores or 4 whatever. See what the judge say but i bet AMD will have some pretty good lawyers who will argue up is down very convincingly. Your honour what is a core anyway? And who is to say? Why this could be a core, exhibit A if i may... lol



https://bitsum.com/pl_when_hyperthreading_hurts.php
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post #74 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111 View Post

But AMD put heavy emphasis on it being a true 8 core. i.e real core campaign.

AMD definitely got a bit more sales preying on the ignorance with the 8 core campaign than Nvidia got advertising the card as a 4gb card vs 3.5gb card. The 0.5gb didn't matter to most people as they still got what they paid for as far as performance goes.

Think about this, do you think AMD sales would significantly decrease if they advertised their chips as a 4 core design with some moniker like super threading or as a 4 module chip? I think it would. Do you think the gtx 970 sales would have been effected much if they advertised it as a 3.5gb card considering its value proposition at the time(performing at a 290x(550-499) level for 330 dollars)?

The gtx 970's performance sold for itself. That 0.5gb hardly matters as even with that knowledge available now, they sell well still and havent really had a price drop since release.

The only thing the fx8150 had going for it was that it had supposedly more cores than a 2600k. It other characteristics were worse, it was slower, was as expensive as a 2600k processor upon release, didn't overclock well and drank up more power like a pentium 4.
All 4gb of memory was never advertised full speed, much like all 8 cores in AMD work like quadcores most of the time. Hence the similarities.

The difference is, that 0.5gb barely only impacted a small amount of users. On the other hand, the fx8150 performs more like a quadcore 90 percent of the time and like an 8 core in a couple instances which all 8 cores can be activated and used.
They still have good latency. More recent Intel quad cores have worse L3 speeds thus making them underperform - literally like the celerons - when multiple program instances are run simultaneously.
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post #75 of 333
I'm not sure what the problem is. You read reviews before you bought these chips, you knew exactly how they performed and how that 8-core couldn't even match the equivalent Intel i7 quad core in most usage scenarios, including gaming. You got what you paid for, so I fail to see what the problem is.
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post #76 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111 View Post

But AMD put heavy emphasis on it being a true 8 core. i.e real core campaign.

AMD definitely got a bit more sales preying on the ignorance with the 8 core campaign than Nvidia got advertising the card as a 4gb card vs 3.5gb card. The 0.5gb didn't matter to most people as they still got what they paid for as far as performance goes.

Except it is 4GB and eight cores. That's an objective fact. I can take a stick and poke them all. Look at the lithography of Bulldozer and the memory chips of a 970. They're all there, and they are all utilized.

Quote:
Think about this, do you think AMD sales would significantly decrease if they advertised their chips as a 4 core design with some moniker like super threading or as a 4 module chip? I think it would. Do you think the gtx 970 sales would have been effected much if they advertised it as a 3.5gb card considering its value proposition at the time(performing at a 290x(550-499) level for 330 dollars)?

The gtx 970's performance sold for itself. That 0.5gb hardly matters as even with that knowledge available now, they sell well still and havent really had a price drop since release.

The only thing the fx8150 had going for it was that it had supposedly more cores than a 2600k. It other characteristics were worse, it was slower, was as expensive as a 2600k processor upon release, didn't overclock well and drank up more power like a pentium 4.

Well sure it would. And it would be to their disadvantage. It would also be highly illegal to do so if this were in fact a quad-core.

But it does have more cores than a 2600K. They're on the die. I'm not sure how to simplify this any more. There are big piles of transistors that make up integer cores, and there are eight of them on the Vishera and Zambezi dies, and they are all used.

Quote:
All 4gb of memory was never advertised full speed, much like all 8 cores in AMD work like quadcores most of the time. Hence the similarities.

The difference is, that 0.5gb barely only impacted a small amount of users. On the other hand, the fx8150 performs more like a quadcore 90 percent of the time and like an 8 core in a couple instances which all 8 cores can be activated and used.

Actually, Nvidia did advertise the 970 at the same 224GB/s speeds as the 980. And indeed, that is 100% true. They also advertised a 256-bit bus. That, too, is technically true. It's a split bus, yes, but it can reach 224GB/s bandwidth and transfer 256 bits per cycle. They just can't all be reads or all be writes.

"The FX-8150 performs like a quadcore 90 percent of the time." Really? What kind of quad-core? Are we talking Phenom x4 or Core2Quad, architectures with similar IPCs? Or are we talking Sandy Bridge and Westmere, architectures with measurably faster IPCs? If it's the latter, well obviously. Eight slow cores should about match four fast cores, roughly speaking. If you're talking about the former, I've never seen it. 90% of tests I've seen show Zambezi and Vishera far outpacing C2Qs and Phenom x4s in multicore performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Considering that AMD didn't invent the first multi-core processor, it isn't up to them to define what a core means.

Uh... You sure about that? IMB was first with dual-core POWER4 designs in 2001, but AMD beat Intel in the x86 world by several months. Intel had the Pentium D to respond with, a hot, slow chip consisting of two Netburst dies on a single package while AMD had the Athlon 64 x2.

Since IBM invented the first dual-core CPU though, that means it is up to them to decide. A dual-core CPU therefore must be PowerPC-based. ARM and x86 CPUs are not true CPUs because reasons, and because IBM was first they're allowed to say that.
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post #77 of 333
Intel at it again? How many times do they have to lose before they give up?
post #78 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

I'm not sure what the problem is. You read reviews before you bought these chips, you knew exactly how they performed and how that 8-core couldn't even match the equivalent Intel i7 quad core in most usage scenarios, including gaming. You got what you paid for, so I fail to see what the problem is.

You mean like the GTX 970? tongue.gif
post #79 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Uh... You sure about that? IMB was first with dual-core POWER4 designs in 2001, but AMD beat Intel in the x86 world by several months. Intel had the Pentium D to respond with, a hot, slow chip consisting of two Netburst dies on a single package while AMD had the Athlon 64 x2.

Since IBM invented the first dual-core CPU though, that means it is up to them to decide. A dual-core CPU therefore must be PowerPC-based. ARM and x86 CPUs are not true CPUs because reasons, and because IBM was first they're allowed to say that.

Yes, I'm sure I never said Intel.

You assumed I did, but I didn't.

My statement still stands ... AMD didn't invent the first multi-core processor, it isn't up to them to define what a core means.
post #80 of 333
I never thought of the BD cores as full cores. They have to share resources with the other core in the same module. But this lawsuit probably won't go anywhere, just like the Nvidia 3.5gb lawsuit.
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