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[Gamespot] Gabe Newell: Valve's Steam Machines Outperform Consoles at Same Price Point - Page 13

post #121 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob27shred View Post

What are you talking about? "Ever wonder why consoles are the focus? 1 set of hardware. Now, with the steam machines, they have it...And the market is catching on." Not even close on this statement. While I will admit the Steam Boxes are very Intel & Nvidia centric they by no means have a standardized set of hardware. You get Steam boxes that have from i3s to i7s Haswell or Skylake, the GPUs can range from 750tis all the way up to Titan Xs. Now that's just taking the intel/nvidia setups into account, while I haven't seen one myself yet the Steam boxes also allow for AMD CPUs & GPUs to be used. No sure where you are getting the idea that devs will have a standardized set of hardware to work with on the Steam boxes? Also your statement implies that games will developed with the Steam box in mind or directly for it which will not happen. Basically anybody who gets one of these as there main gaming machine will be very disappointed because 99% (if not all) games release for Windows & consoles in the 1st place. If a certain game becomes a hit & makes some money then they start thinking about porting it to linux i.e Steam OS. The bottom line about Steam boxes IMO is a great idea horribly executed. thumb.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by HowHardCanItBe View Post

What are you on about? There are 15 billion versions of the steam machines. I am not the average consumer, but these are way too many choices here and when you give someone too many choices, you confuse the average Joe even more.

http://store.steampowered.com/sale/steam_machines

Quote:
Originally Posted by XAslanX View Post

Wrong, there are too many machines with varying price points and hardware configurations to make a single set of hardware. No different than it is now.

Excellent video explaining why it's going to fail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC6XK8oK4-c

Replying to all 3 of you at once.

Steam machines have a set list of parts they must have in order to be called Steam Machines. It's one of the provisions of the contract. /Dropmic.

So it's actually irrelevant how many parts variations there are now in existing "steam machines"...They're within the contract.

It's still SIGNIFICANTLY less than what exists on the open market...So, once again, set parts lists.
post #122 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post



Replying to all 3 of you at once.

Steam machines have a set list of parts they must have in order to be called Steam Machines. It's one of the provisions of the contract. /Dropmic.

So it's actually irrelevant how many parts variations there are now in existing "steam machines"...They're within the contract.

It's still SIGNIFICANTLY less than what exists on the open market...So, once again, set parts lists.

I'd think you could even build your own if you wanted to as long as SteamOS (non-beta) had an ISO to install from. Would be nice to see a difference between SteamOS and the revision of Debian they built it from.
post #123 of 247
Even if there was only one official Steam Machine hardware configuration, I seriously doubt that any dev would be influenced to put extra development resources into optimizing for Steam Machines. I mean, that wouldn't be much different from a dev saying, "oh, Dell sells tons of "insert desktop model name here" so we should optimize for that model.
post #124 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxdarkreap3rxx View Post

I'd think you could even build your own if you wanted to as long as SteamOS (non-beta) had an ISO to install from. Would be nice to see a difference between SteamOS and the revision of Debian they built it from.

Theoretically, yeah...There's nothing stopping you, really...Could even rip it and do it yourself most likely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest2000 View Post

Even if there was only one official Steam Machine hardware configuration, I seriously doubt that any dev would be influenced to put extra development resources into optimizing for Steam Machines. I mean, that wouldn't be much different from a dev saying, "oh, Dell sells tons of "insert desktop model name here" so we should optimize for that model.

It's not extra development time.

Right now, developers attempt to optimize for well over 20000 unique PC configurations - Most of which, like the 980's/960's etc, require extra work on the coding end of the game to actually streamline visuals...

This is why Batman, failed. The studio of 12, didn't have the time to code for the exceptions, so they didn't.

Steam Machines, eliminate those exceptions...With a set parts list thus, it's basically a direct port with no additional development time...

So, this actually saves them, a TREMENDOUS amount of resources which is why, developers love it and will be coding for it...
post #125 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest2000 View Post

Even if there was only one official Steam Machine hardware configuration, I seriously doubt that any dev would be influenced to put extra development resources into optimizing for Steam Machines. I mean, that wouldn't be much different from a dev saying, "oh, Dell sells tons of "insert desktop model name here" so we should optimize for that model.

How many devs do that for Windows? It's basically the same thing, just a different platform.
post #126 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Theoretically, yeah...There's nothing stopping you, really...Could even rip it and do it yourself most likely.
It's not extra development time.

Right now, developers attempt to optimize for well over 20000 unique PC configurations - Most of which, like the 980's/960's etc, require extra work on the coding end of the game to actually streamline visuals...

This is why Batman, failed. The studio of 12, didn't have the time to code for the exceptions, so they didn't.

Steam Machines, eliminate those exceptions...With a set parts list thus, it's basically a direct port with no additional development time...

So, this actually saves them, a TREMENDOUS amount of resources which is why, developers love it and will be coding for it...

You say that it's not extra development time, then you say it would just be a port. That's a contradiction. If you develop for PC, PS4, and X1, and then decide to do a special port OR additional optimzation for Steam Machine, either way you're using additional development resources to do so. The only time it's NOT additional dev resources is if you're creating a Steam Machine exclusive.

My point is that I don't see any developer going out of their way to create a special build for Steam Machines aside from their PC build. They'll just see Steam Machines as any other PC, even if Steam Machines have a tight group of official hardware configs.
Edited by Tempest2000 - 11/10/15 at 6:27am
post #127 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest2000 View Post

You say that it's not extra development time, then you say it would just be a port. That's a contradiction. If you develop for PC, PS4, and X1, and then decide to do a special port OR additional optimzation for Steam Machine, either way you're using additional development resources to do so. The only time it's NOT additional dev resources is if you're creating a Steam Machine exclusive.

No it's not; actually.

Rocket League for example...Was made originally for the PS4 and XBone then was "ported over" to the PC...Additional development time was minimal because it's a simple product. It doesn't attempt to push the envelope.

Products like Batman and Fallout, take a tremendous amount of time to optimize post-porting for those variations and exceptions - That simply doesn't exist with Steam Machines.

You could literally take those 20,000 combinations, cut them down to 5,000 combinations, avoid specific exceptions and you'd be saving developers MONTHS of man hours...

Again, there is no additional optimization for a steam machine because you've removed those exceptions so, development time remains status quot.
post #128 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

No it's not; actually.

Rocket League for example...Was made originally for the PS4 and XBone then was "ported over" to the PC...Additional development time was minimal because it's a simple product. It doesn't attempt to push the envelope.

Products like Batman and Fallout, take a tremendous amount of time to optimize post-porting for those variations and exceptions - That simply doesn't exist with Steam Machines.

You could literally take those 20,000 combinations, cut them down to 5,000 combinations, avoid specific exceptions and you'd be saving developers MONTHS of man hours...

Again, you contradicted yourself. Doing a port or optimization for a specific hardware configuration TAKES TIME AND RESOURCES. I'm not differentiating subjective amounts of time, here. There's no point if it takes half a day or 2 years. That's not the argument. I'm differentiating Steam Machines from "PCs" for the sake of saying that I doubt they will get special treatment from devs for a given PC game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Again, there is no additional optimization for a steam machine because you've removed those exceptions so, development time remains status quot.

The Steam Machine IS the exception. It doesn't have to be if a dev just treats it as any other PC, but again, if they want to do a "port" or optimization for it, it becomes the additional platform; the exception.
post #129 of 247
I wonder if you can install games bought on other distribution channels. It would be a monopoly otherwise when they are touting its openness.
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post #130 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadRabbit View Post

So, I must ask, since the Steam Machine is meant for gaming mostly (well, Steam duh) how many games will it actually run compared to current gen consoles? rolleyes.gif

It's not always about power, it's also about usability in terms of gaming since he felt the need to compare it to consoles in the first place.

I would prefer there be more games on Linux of course, but the Steam Machines do have DOTA2, TF2, and CS:GO so that already includes the majority of PC gamers. That is enough to get these things started.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest2000 View Post

Even if there was only one official Steam Machine hardware configuration, I seriously doubt that any dev would be influenced to put extra development resources into optimizing for Steam Machines. I mean, that wouldn't be much different from a dev saying, "oh, Dell sells tons of "insert desktop model name here" so we should optimize for that model.

In a way. But then again if the devs are developing for Linux they would for one thing target the linux base that SteamOS runs on for their main compatibility and optimizations, and during that linux development those optimizations would be primarily for the hardware of their test and development boxes which would be the Steam Machine.
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