Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [Gamespot] Gabe Newell: Valve's Steam Machines Outperform Consoles at Same Price Point
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[Gamespot] Gabe Newell: Valve's Steam Machines Outperform Consoles at Same Price Point - Page 7

post #61 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chargeit View Post

There's more to getting a good gaming experience then having theoretically stronger hardware. I don't think I'd want to use a $450 Steam Machine over a console.

Getting sub-par gaming equipment to run games well takes experience. The person coming from console to PC won't have that experience.

*What upcoming AAA games will support Steam OS? Not really keeping up with it.


Steam needs guidelines for making Steam Machines. There should be at best 2 categories, at worst 3.

I'd go for something like,

Radical - i3, x60 GPU (2gb vram), 8gb ram
Boosted - i5, x70 gpu (4gb Vram), 8gb ram
Extreme - i7, x80 gpu (4gb Vram) 16gb ram (maybe not even have this level)

Keep the options lite. When a console player looks at Steam Machines and see's 30 options ranging from $450 - $3,000+ they're going say screw that and buy a PS4.

That's exactly what I have been saying about the Steam Machines! +1 rep for you good sir! thumb.gif Seriously though, I fail to see how the Steam Machines will capture a part of the console gaming market with so much variation in the Steam boxes. As it stands right now the options are way too much for an uninformed consumer (i.e. console gamer who does not know the differences between all the different CPUs, GPUs. & amounts of RAM) to not be overwhelmed & say "screw it, I know the PS4 or XB1 will play whatever games are made for it" & choose one of them over a Steam box. Then you throw in the fact that they will be running Steam OS out of the box limiting owners to a much smaller game library than windows & you just made an awesome recipe for failure...

I figure that you will be able to install Windows on to any Steam Box but that takes us to another tough spot for the Steam Boxes. If you are a console gamer who wants to make the jump to PC you're more than likely looking for a plug & play experience similar to the consoles. Having to change the OS trashes that idea. Also you have to consider that most console gamers are not gonna be nearly as PC savvy as PC gamers so having to do something like changing the OS or upgrading the hardware could be a deal breaker in their eyes. The Steam Boxes are a great ideal on paper but not so much in the real world if you ask me. It's a shame cause I'd love to see them beat the consoles at their own game. Unfortunately the way the Steam Boxes were conceived & produced was from a very PC savvy person's perspective it seems.
Bobert
(23 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 6700k @4.5Ghz Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 7 Gigabyte Xtreme Windforce 980ti 6GB G. Skill RipjawsV DDR4 3200 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung EVO 840 250GB 2.5" SATA 6.0Gb/s SSD Samsung EVO 850 500GB 2.5" SATA 6.0Gb/s SSD Toshiba DT01ACA100 1TB 32MB Cache SATA 3 (6.0 G... Toshiba DT01ACA300 3TB 64MB Cache SATA 3 (6.0 G... 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Toshiba PH3500U-1I72 5TB 128MB Cache SATA 3 (6.... Corsair H100i GTX 240mm AIO Thermaltake Riing 14 series HSP 140mm Red LED Fans Thermaltake Riing 12 series HSP 120mm Red LED Fan 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Noctua NF-F12 iPPC 2000rpm HSP Fans Windows 10 Home Samsung UN46ES7500F 46" 1080p LED HDTV GazzeW custom 60% with arrow cluster, MOD-M tac... 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic X series 1250w XM2 Rosewill Cullinan Roccat Kova CENNBIE Galaxy Gaming Mouse Pad 23.6 × 15.7 × 0... 
AudioOtherOther
Corsair H2100 Wireless Gaming Headset Black/Red individually sleeved PSU ext. cables Corsair color kit for H100iGTX (red) 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 4700MQ Tohiba proprietary  Nvidia GTX 770M Samsung 4GB DDR3 PC3-12800 1600MHz 204-Pin SODIMM 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung SM951 256GB AHCI MZHPV256HDGL-00000 M.2... Toshiba 1TB 5400RPM SATA3/SATA 6.0 GB/s 8MB Not... Hitachi HTS542580K9SA00 80GB 5400RPM Toshiba proprietary BD drive 
CoolingOSMonitor
LOL Windows 10 Home 17.3" 1080p Active Matrix TFT Color LCD 
  hide details  
Reply
Bobert
(23 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 6700k @4.5Ghz Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 7 Gigabyte Xtreme Windforce 980ti 6GB G. Skill RipjawsV DDR4 3200 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung EVO 840 250GB 2.5" SATA 6.0Gb/s SSD Samsung EVO 850 500GB 2.5" SATA 6.0Gb/s SSD Toshiba DT01ACA100 1TB 32MB Cache SATA 3 (6.0 G... Toshiba DT01ACA300 3TB 64MB Cache SATA 3 (6.0 G... 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Toshiba PH3500U-1I72 5TB 128MB Cache SATA 3 (6.... Corsair H100i GTX 240mm AIO Thermaltake Riing 14 series HSP 140mm Red LED Fans Thermaltake Riing 12 series HSP 120mm Red LED Fan 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Noctua NF-F12 iPPC 2000rpm HSP Fans Windows 10 Home Samsung UN46ES7500F 46" 1080p LED HDTV GazzeW custom 60% with arrow cluster, MOD-M tac... 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic X series 1250w XM2 Rosewill Cullinan Roccat Kova CENNBIE Galaxy Gaming Mouse Pad 23.6 × 15.7 × 0... 
AudioOtherOther
Corsair H2100 Wireless Gaming Headset Black/Red individually sleeved PSU ext. cables Corsair color kit for H100iGTX (red) 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 4700MQ Tohiba proprietary  Nvidia GTX 770M Samsung 4GB DDR3 PC3-12800 1600MHz 204-Pin SODIMM 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung SM951 256GB AHCI MZHPV256HDGL-00000 M.2... Toshiba 1TB 5400RPM SATA3/SATA 6.0 GB/s 8MB Not... Hitachi HTS542580K9SA00 80GB 5400RPM Toshiba proprietary BD drive 
CoolingOSMonitor
LOL Windows 10 Home 17.3" 1080p Active Matrix TFT Color LCD 
  hide details  
Reply
post #62 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post



Just like with most things in life, it all boils down to $$$...


Why are you showing me some old diagram from EA? Secondly, development cost is part of finances as well as revenue generators, why do you think that developer from DICE (Battlefield and Battlefront) said that PC is the gold standard......why because it costs less to develop for.

post #63 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoorishBrutha View Post

First of all, you answered your own question about dumbing down games. Once again, workstation GPUs, the same GPUs that video games are made from, of today are way more powerful than current-gen consoles thus there are alot of labor-intensive months dumbing down games for consoles compatibility. Developers are tired of it so that's why they are standardized every hardware (e.g. X86) to make their job much easier. Developers are at a point where they spend more time dumbing games down than actually developing the games themselves.


X86 on PS4 is not X86 on PC. I mean it is the same species, just totally a different breed. Just because something is developed on PC and Produced that it's suddenly backwards compatible with is a dumbfounded moronic statement. All games for consoles since the birth of a console was developed and produced on a much more powerful machine. Did you even see the Ratchet & Clank gameplay video?
Power Tower
(22 items)
 
SteamBox
(9 items)
 
Doge Miner
(7 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 1700X AX370-Gaming 5 AMD Radeon R9 200 Series G.Skill DDR4-2400 
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
G.Skill DDR4-2400 G.Skill DDR4-2400 G.Skill DDR4-2400 Samsung 840 Pro 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
CX300 Crucial 480GB Toshiba 4TB Toshbia 4TB Western Digital Black 1TB 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
h110i Windows 10 42" LG TV 20" Digitizer ASUS 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Corsair Vengeance Mechanical Keyboard  850watt Vampire Gold Rated NZXT S340 Elite Corsair RGB FPS Mouse 
Mouse PadAudio
Borderlands Mousepad Realtek HD 
  hide details  
Reply
Power Tower
(22 items)
 
SteamBox
(9 items)
 
Doge Miner
(7 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 1700X AX370-Gaming 5 AMD Radeon R9 200 Series G.Skill DDR4-2400 
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
G.Skill DDR4-2400 G.Skill DDR4-2400 G.Skill DDR4-2400 Samsung 840 Pro 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
CX300 Crucial 480GB Toshiba 4TB Toshbia 4TB Western Digital Black 1TB 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
h110i Windows 10 42" LG TV 20" Digitizer ASUS 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Corsair Vengeance Mechanical Keyboard  850watt Vampire Gold Rated NZXT S340 Elite Corsair RGB FPS Mouse 
Mouse PadAudio
Borderlands Mousepad Realtek HD 
  hide details  
Reply
post #64 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riou View Post

Maybe we should wait until this hardware is released before making performance judgements and not rely on vague speculation. redface.gif

There's no vague speculation. The hardware specs are the hardware specs. There's nothing magical they can do with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smanci View Post

HW doesn't matter if it roughly produces at least the same experience as the PS4. How the UI and software works... that's the big thing.

We know what kind of experience it would give us. It is no different from running Linux on a laptop with a GTX 860M or whatever GPU/CPU hardware combination they use. It's not a console, no matter how much they want to pretend it is. It is a PC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woundingchaney View Post

If Steam machines gain traction then yes I believe it is possible. Mass ordering hardware could in fact reduce retail costs of the hardware considerably. Couple that with the notion of PC software/games being cheaper than their console counterparts and it could very well be a worthwhile investment for console gamers.

OEMs mass order hardware already. I don't see Steam machines ever selling enough to make a difference. Not to mention, if they did, it would undercut other OEMs, and that opens its own can of worms. Fact is, Valve will never be able to sell comparable hardware to traditional OEMs for significantly less.
Millenium Falcon
(24 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 4930k MSI Big Bang Xpower II EVGA GTX 690 Patriot Viper II Sector 7 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
OCZ Deneva 2 Corsair Force 3 Maxtor Western Digital Green 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung BD/DVD-RW Swiftech MCP655 x2 Black Ice GTX 480 Black Ice GTX 280 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Alphacool Repack Dual D5 Watercool Heatkiller 3.0 Alphacool GTX 690 fullcover Bitspower Big Bang Xpower II fullcover 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 8.1 64-bit Professional 3x Dell S2340 Max Keyboard Durandal CoolerMaster V1000 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Azza Genesis 9000B Logitech G700 Roccat Alumic Onkyo HT-S9100THX 
  hide details  
Reply
Millenium Falcon
(24 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 4930k MSI Big Bang Xpower II EVGA GTX 690 Patriot Viper II Sector 7 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
OCZ Deneva 2 Corsair Force 3 Maxtor Western Digital Green 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung BD/DVD-RW Swiftech MCP655 x2 Black Ice GTX 480 Black Ice GTX 280 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Alphacool Repack Dual D5 Watercool Heatkiller 3.0 Alphacool GTX 690 fullcover Bitspower Big Bang Xpower II fullcover 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 8.1 64-bit Professional 3x Dell S2340 Max Keyboard Durandal CoolerMaster V1000 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Azza Genesis 9000B Logitech G700 Roccat Alumic Onkyo HT-S9100THX 
  hide details  
Reply
post #65 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoorishBrutha View Post

I already know you don't know anything about tech and game development based upon this statement but anyway, let me school you just for the sake of clarity. All games are designed on the PC.....All. The reason you see visual and technical downgrades on games like WatchDogs, Witcher 3, Mortal Kombat, The Division, etc. is because developers have to so these games are compatible with the consoles' weak hardware.

Look at a game like Star Citizen, it's simply beautiful. The developers of that game explicitly said this game isn't going to come out on the consoles because they can't handle it.

Not just WatchDogs, Witcher 3, Mortal Kombat X get visual and technical downgrades but all games do......you know why: because the consoles are too weak to handle them.

Remember now, workstation GPUs, the same GPUs that video games are made from, are way more powerful than today's consoles so developers have to spend beaucoup months dumbing games down for compatibility. Consoles are holding back gaming, but they are still more known than PC Gaming so they still get alot of attention from developers/publishers.......but will change very soon.

When developers start programming very low with Vulkan and DX12, they won't have alot of time to be dumbing down games for consoles' compatibility because programming low takes up is very time-consuming instead they are just going to starting showing hardware differential or simply not developing for consoles period.

A few ways in which you're WAY off base and flat out incorrect:

1. Your first statement implies that all games, even console exclusives, are designed to run on PC hardware and then ported down. Are you one of those people who thinks that Naughty codes their engines for PC, ahs the game running on PC, and then dumbs it down and ports it to PS4? This is a common misconception, and thus wrong. Designing and developing on PCs isn't the same as developing FOR PC. Yes, console SDKs run in WIndows and thus development (coding, compiling, debugging, asset creation, etc) occurs on the PC, however, when these games are actually executed and run, they run on console hardware that is interfaced with the PC, and not running on the PC hardware itself, but on the console hardware.

2. You don't seem to realize that the vast majority of PC games run on PC hardware that is less powerful than the consoles (this is because the primary PC gamer/consumer's PC is less powerful than the console, and since it's the majority, it must be catered to (low-end PCs). Now, since you seem to understand that specialized console coding/porting/optimization takes time, why can't you see that developing for these low-end PCs takes time as well? Not only that, but PC game software capable of running on nearly any modern hardware configuration also takes a major RUNTIME performance hit to cater to so many hardware configs. So even if consoles didn't exist, PC games would have the exact same problems. Based on your other posts, I know that you'll never admit it, but the best part about PCs (hardware freedom) is by far its biggest hindrance as well. It has nothing to do with the consoles.

3. Besides Star Citizen (which not only won't run on consoles but also won't run on the majority of gaming PCs if you take what the dev said at face value), all of the other games you listed support hardware configurations that are less powerful than the current consoles. You think that means consoles are holding those games back?

4. You seem to be confused about DX12. It's basically the opposite of what you said. Use of DX12 doesn't mean that developers will be doing more low-level coding, it means that the API itself is designed to use more low-level coding underneath while hiding that layer from the programmer. That's one of the primary purposes of an API. So no, they won't be spending more time on low-level programming; they will be spending less.
post #66 of 247
Here's to hoping that with the release of these machines we also get an EPIC winter sale to encourage their adoption.
The New Recruit
(17 items)
 
An Old Soldier
(20 items)
 
Big Mama
(23 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-3570K@4.2 P8Z68-V GEN3 MSI GTX 1070 Gaming X 8G 16 GB CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin ... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
OCZ Vertex 3 120 Gb WD Caviar Black 1TB WD Caviar Blue 1TB ASUS 24X DVD Burner - Bulk 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW ... 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Cooler Master 212 EVO Windows 10 BenQ XL2730Z Maxkeyboard Nighthawk x9 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
NZXT Hale82 750w  Corsair Carbide 400R Logitech G502 Proteus Core HIEN SOFT L Japan black | SAMURAI gaming mouse ... 
AudioAudioAudioOther
Creative SB X-Fi Titanium HD Pc 363d Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 BT epson wf 3540 
  hide details  
Reply
The New Recruit
(17 items)
 
An Old Soldier
(20 items)
 
Big Mama
(23 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-3570K@4.2 P8Z68-V GEN3 MSI GTX 1070 Gaming X 8G 16 GB CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin ... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
OCZ Vertex 3 120 Gb WD Caviar Black 1TB WD Caviar Blue 1TB ASUS 24X DVD Burner - Bulk 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW ... 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Cooler Master 212 EVO Windows 10 BenQ XL2730Z Maxkeyboard Nighthawk x9 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
NZXT Hale82 750w  Corsair Carbide 400R Logitech G502 Proteus Core HIEN SOFT L Japan black | SAMURAI gaming mouse ... 
AudioAudioAudioOther
Creative SB X-Fi Titanium HD Pc 363d Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 BT epson wf 3540 
  hide details  
Reply
post #67 of 247
According to cinebench R11.5, ps4 dev kits at 3.2 points and xbox ones at 3.5 points are around Intel i3 6100h - 3220 scores.
The Machine
(14 items)
 
Nexus 7 2013
(11 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10 6800K Asus F2A85-V MSI 6870 Hawx, VTX3D 5770, AMD HD6950(RIP), Sap... G.skill Ripjaws PC12800 6-8-6-24 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Seagate 7200.5 1TB NEC 3540 Dvd-Rom Windows 7 x32 Ultimate Samsung P2350 23" 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Seasonic s12-600w CoolerMaster Centurion 5 Logitech G600 Auzen X-Fi Raider 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Quad Krait 300 at 1.5Ghz Qualcomm APQ8064-1AA SOC Adreno 320 at 400mhz 2GB DDR3L-1600 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
32GB Internal NAND Android 5.0 7" 1920X1200 103% sRGB & 572 cd/m2 LTPS IPS Microsoft Wedge Mobile Keyboard 
PowerAudio
3950mAh/15.01mAh Battery Stereo Speakers 
  hide details  
Reply
The Machine
(14 items)
 
Nexus 7 2013
(11 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10 6800K Asus F2A85-V MSI 6870 Hawx, VTX3D 5770, AMD HD6950(RIP), Sap... G.skill Ripjaws PC12800 6-8-6-24 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Seagate 7200.5 1TB NEC 3540 Dvd-Rom Windows 7 x32 Ultimate Samsung P2350 23" 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Seasonic s12-600w CoolerMaster Centurion 5 Logitech G600 Auzen X-Fi Raider 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Quad Krait 300 at 1.5Ghz Qualcomm APQ8064-1AA SOC Adreno 320 at 400mhz 2GB DDR3L-1600 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
32GB Internal NAND Android 5.0 7" 1920X1200 103% sRGB & 572 cd/m2 LTPS IPS Microsoft Wedge Mobile Keyboard 
PowerAudio
3950mAh/15.01mAh Battery Stereo Speakers 
  hide details  
Reply
post #68 of 247
Except he forgot that his steam machines are a bunch of overpriced OEM PCs.
post #69 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowHardCanItBe View Post

Except he forgot that his steam machines are a bunch of overpriced OEM PCs.

This.

"Steam Machines" will be an abysmal failure.
Biggus D.
(18 items)
 
Leo Laporte
(13 items)
 
Shooter McGavin
(24 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II X6 Thuban 1090T @ 4GHz Asus Crosshair IV Formula 2x5870 in CrossfireX 2x4GB OCZ GOLD 1333MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x1TB Samsung Spinpoint, 2x1TB Seagate Barracuda Samsung Super Multi + Samsung BluRay LS Windows 7 Ultimate x64 2 x Samsung 2494SW 24'' 16:9 1080p 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Razer Arctosa Silver Silverstone Strider ST-1000 Coolermaster HAF X Steelseries Kinzu 
Mouse Pad
Steelseries 11.5x12.2 Surface 
  hide details  
Reply
Biggus D.
(18 items)
 
Leo Laporte
(13 items)
 
Shooter McGavin
(24 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II X6 Thuban 1090T @ 4GHz Asus Crosshair IV Formula 2x5870 in CrossfireX 2x4GB OCZ GOLD 1333MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x1TB Samsung Spinpoint, 2x1TB Seagate Barracuda Samsung Super Multi + Samsung BluRay LS Windows 7 Ultimate x64 2 x Samsung 2494SW 24'' 16:9 1080p 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Razer Arctosa Silver Silverstone Strider ST-1000 Coolermaster HAF X Steelseries Kinzu 
Mouse Pad
Steelseries 11.5x12.2 Surface 
  hide details  
Reply
post #70 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkatt View Post

id rather have a ps4 if I was in that "steam box or ps4" scenario ..

Same tbh. These machines miss a lot of the points that make consoles so attractive - widespread developer support, ease of use, and long term support from the hardware manufacturers (look at how the PS3 is still being manufactured and sold). What do you think would happen to someone if they ran into a problem with a game using Steam OS and didn't know how to fix it? The same thing that happens to a PC user - googling and trying to diagnose and fix the game, but more obscure thanks to the OS being less common. And then, again, there's the issue of a small library compared to PCs as a whole, and (assuming you get them anywhere near to release), bad ports of big launches. That, and Valve isn't nearly as big as Sony, let alone Microsoft.

This seems like a fad that will be popular for a bit and die off, much like netbooks, 3D gaming and other things.
Herschel
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 4770K ASRock Z87M Extreme4 eVGA GTX 680 2GB 12GB G.Skill Ripjaws 1600 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1x 60GB SSD 1x 500GB, 1x 640GB, 1x 1TB Asus something or other Windows 7 Ultimate x64 Acer H236HLbid (23" 1920x1080) 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Asus VE198 (19". 1440x900) Microsoft Sidewinder X4 Seasonic X650 Antec P180 Mini White 
Mouse
Logitech G500 
  hide details  
Reply
Herschel
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 4770K ASRock Z87M Extreme4 eVGA GTX 680 2GB 12GB G.Skill Ripjaws 1600 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1x 60GB SSD 1x 500GB, 1x 640GB, 1x 1TB Asus something or other Windows 7 Ultimate x64 Acer H236HLbid (23" 1920x1080) 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Asus VE198 (19". 1440x900) Microsoft Sidewinder X4 Seasonic X650 Antec P180 Mini White 
Mouse
Logitech G500 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Hardware News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [Gamespot] Gabe Newell: Valve's Steam Machines Outperform Consoles at Same Price Point