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post #31 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post

and clean the registry with Ccleaner...

This is a bad idea because there's a history of registry cleaners (including CCleaner) deleting false positives and completely ruining the OS, rendering it completely useless. Besides, any perceived performance gains from this is purely The Placebo Effect. I mean, the Registry is ENORMOUS. So, having a few unnecessary entries in it is NOT going to slow anything down AT ALL. Again, there's also the risk of deleting false positives. Never mess with the Registry unless you are doing it manually and you absolutely know what you're doing.

It's actually not ridiculous if you want to maintain system longevity. I used to examine all the entries, but it breaks nothing. I've only been running W7 for about a year now, but I ran Vista from initial release till the end of last year, 24/7. Same OS install migrated from two different motherboards, over the span of 8 years having both ATI and nVidia cards at different points... running just as well, if not slightly more stable than W7 when I finally retired it.

So I gotta call anecdotal BS. Registry bloat may not be a big deal, but it loads it all and after time it just gets more and more boated... Maybe it doesn't make so much difference now, but it sure did for W95/98/XP. But back in the W95 days, the difference between running IDE and dedicated SCSI was offloading 6-8% of i/o from the cpu.

So, yeah, old sysadmin maintaining my personal system the way it works best for me. tongue.gif
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post #32 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post


It's actually not ridiculous if you want to maintain system longevity. I used to examine all the entries, but it breaks nothing. I've only been running W7 for about a year now, but I ran Vista from initial release till the end of last year, 24/7. Same OS install migrated from two different motherboards, over the span of 8 years having both ATI and nVidia cards at different points... running just as well, if not slightly more stable than W7 when I finally retired it.

So I gotta call anecdotal BS. Registry bloat may not be a big deal, but it loads it all and after time it just gets more and more boated... Maybe it doesn't make so much difference now, but it sure did for W95/98/XP. But back in the W95 days, the difference between running IDE and dedicated SCSI was offloading 6-8% of i/o from the cpu.

So, yeah, old sysadmin maintaining my personal system the way it works best for me. tongue.gif

 

Consider this:

 

http://lifehacker.com/5482701/whats-the-registry-should-i-clean-it-and-whats-the-point

 

Scroll down to "Do You Really Need to Clean the Registry?"

 

Here's another, better article: http://www.howtogeek.com/171633/why-using-a-registry-cleaner-wont-speed-up-your-pc-or-fix-crashes/

 

Here are some more articles in my search results for your perusal and consideration: https://classic.startpage.com/do/search?hmb=1&cat=web&cmd=process_search&language=english&engine0=v1all&query=why+you+should+never+clean+the+windows+registry&abp=1

 

Just to be fair, I performed a search for why you should clean it, but look at the results:

 

https://classic.startpage.com/do/search?cmd=process_search&language=english&enginecount=1&pl=&abp=1&hmb=1&ff=&theme=&flag_ac=0&lui=english&cat=web&query=why+you+should+clean+the+windows+registry

 

Keep doing it if you want to, but I will never do it because it's a waste of time and it's risky (in other words, it's not worth it). You've been lucky so far, but I have seen enough cases on OCN alone during my time here of people completely screwing up their computer by cleaning the Registry that I will NEVER recommend or allow the cleaning of the Windows registry - nor will I ever allow anyone to recommend that others do it. Every damn time I encountered problems that someone was dealing with where I thought the culprit was that they cleaned the registry, I always found out that yes, they did.

 

You can keep saying that I'm just spewing B.S. all you want, but I am not interested in wasting anyone's time or misleading anyone for any reason. I am here to HELP people. In my experience on OCN, I have found that the recommendation to clean the registry is very bad advice and could potentially put you at risk of being held responsible for destroying that person's installation of Windows.


Edited by TwoCables - 11/8/15 at 10:23pm
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post #33 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by from that first article 
The sad answer, which we covered while debunking performance tweaking myths, is that most of these products are not worth running, and while the better ones won't necessarily kill your PC, they're rarely going to help you a lot either. If you stop and think about it, you'll realize that since the registry contains many hundreds of thousands of keys (or more), removing 50 or even 100 of them isn't going to yield any performance gains.

How about removing THOUSANDS of bad entries... If you leave an OS to run for years on end using it full time, installing and uninstalling crap, eventually crap will build up. That's why people used to format and reinstall W95/98/XP every 6 months to a year or so before actually having performance degrade.

The registry is a database, databases collect junk. If you let them collect junk long enough, it will start affecting performance. With quad cores and gigs of main memory, yeah, it's not really necessary. And as your first article says... removing 50 or 100 of them won't matter, and it's rarely going to help a lot either. But cumulatively, over years of use powered on 24/7, it does matter to me because my systems never get old or sluggish feeling, even after years of 24/7 always on use.

As far as I'm concerned, you can keep your old wives' tale from the W98 days when registry cleaners WERE often damaging. You might want to tell me not to overclock because I might melt my system. rolleyes.gif
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post #34 of 37
Perhaps a more responsible option than recommending registry cleaning to computer illiterate people (which I assume most people on OCN are NOT) would be to always use a smart uninstaller that scans for garbage that a program has left and deletes it.
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post #35 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

Here:

http://www.thessdreview.com/daily-news/latest-buzz/trimcheck-does-your-ssd-really-have-trim-working/

Now you can find out and maybe make a huge upgrade to your defragging.

I used 3rd party defrag programs for years. I just don't now.

I know trim is supposed to be something that just happens. I have read that in past OS it sometimes did not work as expected. I assume windows 10 is just making sure everything is working as intended.
     
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post #36 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post


How about removing THOUSANDS of bad entries...

 

Thousands? Considering that the Registry contains hundreds of thousands of entries (or more), I would say that the difference would be absolutely indistinguishable, which would be perfectly consistent with what I've seen in all my time on OCN over the years.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post

If you leave an OS to run for years on end using it full time, installing and uninstalling crap, eventually crap will build up. That's why people used to format and reinstall W95/98/XP every 6 months to a year or so before actually having performance degrade.

 

That was caused more by the slow computers and slow hard drives of that era combined with hard drives that were too full and not defragged. Today, it's not an issue in the LEAST bit. Even so, Microsoft's current stance on cleaning the registry is they do NOT support it and they do NOT recommend it due to the risk of deleting false positives. The risk is WAY too high considering the extremely small benefit, if any. It's usually just The Placebo Effect, which I would bet my entire sig rig you're experiencing.

 

Setting aside the risks and focusing on just the supposed performance gain, its like taking a Microsoft Word document that has hundreds of thousands of words and deleting a few thousand of them in hopes of making the document open up faster. It just won't make any difference.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post

The registry is a database, databases collect junk. If you let them collect junk long enough, it will start affecting performance. With quad cores and gigs of main memory, yeah, it's not really necessary. And as your first article says... removing 50 or 100 of them won't matter, and it's rarely going to help a lot either. But cumulatively, over years of use powered on 24/7, it does matter to me because my systems never get old or sluggish feeling, even after years of 24/7 always on use.

 

Neither does mine, and I've NEVER used ANY software to maintain or clean my installation of Windows. It's just not necessary. The only time I ever experienced any gradual performance loss was back when I had a 200 MHz Pentium and a tiny and super slow hard drive. Even then, the performance degradation was partly due to my ignorance of filling up the hard drive way too full with garbage and always searching for warez so that I could get my favorite software and game titles for free.

 

So I'm sorry, you're experiencing The Placebo Effect.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post


As far as I'm concerned, you can keep your old wives' tale from the W98 days when registry cleaners WERE often damaging. You might want to tell me not to overclock because I might melt my system. rolleyes.gif

 

Obviously you didn't read those articles or notice how recent they are. Win98 days? Far from it. One article was written earlier this year, another was last year, another was in 2013, another was in 2007, another was in 2010, etc. This is current information. As I said, ever since I joined OCN, I have helped a lot of people who have damaged their installation of Windows beyond repair by cleaning the registry. You can keep doing it if you want to, but don't let me see you recommending it on here because I will be all over you like white on rice again. I will not sit here and allow this kind of bad advice to be given on OCN. I don't care what YOUR experiences have been so far with cleaning the Registry! That absolutely does not guarantee that it will be safe for everyone else!

 

Also, after everything you've said about why you clean your registry, why are you recommending it in THIS thread? All he's asking is how often he should defrag his hard drive. He's just asking a simple question. He's not complaining about major performance problems or other major problems. Even so, cleaning the Registry should never be recommended. EVER. Or, if you insist on recommending it, then at least say that it's risky and explain that it's because false positives could be deleted and cause the installation of Windows to become a train wreck. There is a good history of that happening right on OCN itself, not to mention on other forums like OCN.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post

Perhaps a more responsible option than recommending registry cleaning to computer illiterate people (which I assume most people on OCN are NOT) would be to always use a smart uninstaller that scans for garbage that a program has left and deletes it.

 

Or just stop worrying about it because it's not really a problem. In all my time on OCN, I have never seen any evidence whatsoever that cleaning the registry does any good, and those EXPERTS who wrote those articles would agree with me (obviously). I've never seen any case on here where the person needed to clean their registry and then came out a much happier computer user.

 

Again though, you can do whatever you want to your computer, but don't let me catch you recommending to others that they clean their registry. After what I've seen during my time on OCN, I simply cannot allow it or tolerate it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chargeit View Post


I used 3rd party defrag programs for years. I just don't now.

I know trim is supposed to be something that just happens. I have read that in past OS it sometimes did not work as expected. I assume windows 10 is just making sure everything is working as intended.

 

Sending the TRIM command doesn't guarantee that TRIM is actually working. That's where TRIMcheck comes in (which the article talks about in detail).


Edited by TwoCables - 11/8/15 at 11:48pm
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post #37 of 37
/facepalm
Quote:
Neither does mine, and I've NEVER used ANY software to maintain or clean my installation of Windows. It's just not necessary.

Wow... well I certainly know you have no clue what you're actually talking about. Applications and windows itself leave so much garbage that builds up over time you really have to clean. You would probably recover 5-10 gigs easily with a simple cleaning of install and application temp files and directories, logs, restores, and junk that doesn't get deleted if you uninstall something.

Systems maintenance isn't a joke, just because you don't see it being necessary. A lot of people don't even change the oil in their car and just top it off when necessary. Good advice.

Quote:
All he's asking is how often he should defrag his hard drive.

Maybe you should go back and re-read my first post in this thread. Everyone else was off topic, I directly answered the OP's post with solid advice.

But instead you choose to pick a few words and start a little personal war. *pat pat* Good Job. Time for a Scooby snack.
Edited by xenophobe - 11/9/15 at 11:58am
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