Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Memory › MSI P55-GD65 need some advice on memory.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

MSI P55-GD65 need some advice on memory.

post #1 of 5
Thread Starter 
This is what my motherboard supports:
Quote:
Supports four unbuffered DIMM of 1.5 Volt DDR3 1066/1333/1600*/2000*/2133* (OC) DRAM, 16GB Max
- Supports 1Gb/ 2Gb/ 4Gb DRAM size
- Supports Dual channel mode

I currently got 4x2gb dual channel 1333mhz memory inside my pc. And i just need a expansion so i either end up with 16 or even more gb in total.

My questions are:

1) Can my motherboard support 2x8gb modules?
2) can i mix 1333mhz with 2133 mhz modules?
3) I benchmark a lot, will 2133 result in better scores over 1600mhz or 1333mhz modules?
4) how does this cl thing work, the lower the better right? but does both sets of ram have to be the same on cl amount?
5) what is better higher mhz ram or lower cl ram?
6) can you mix up 2x2 with 2x8 modules of the same type?

Thanks already.
Edited by gatygun - 11/9/15 at 3:45am
post #2 of 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatygun View Post

This is what my motherboard supports:
I currently got 4x2gb dual channel 1333mhz memory inside my pc. And i just need a expansion so i either end up with 16 or even more gb in total.

My questions are:

1) Can my motherboard support 2x8gb modules?
2) can i mix 1333mhz with 2133 mhz modules?
3) I benchmark a lot, will 2133 result in better scores over 1600mhz or 1333mhz modules?
4) how does this cl thing work, the lower the better right? but does both sets of ram have to be the same on cl amount?
5) what is better higher mhz ram or lower cl ram?
6) can you mix up 2x2 with 2x8 modules of the same type?

Thanks already.

 

  1. No, it says it only supports up to 4 GB per module.
  2. You can't mix 1333 MHz and 2133 MHz memory. Even if you tried, the 2133 MHz memory would be forced to run at 1333 MHz.
  3. Yeah, 2133 MHz should give you much better memory benchmarking scores.
  4. The timings are in milliseconds. For CAS # Latency, the faster the better. Both memory modules need to have the same timings, or else the slower timings (higher numbers) will be used for both modules.
  5. I'm still not sure. lol
  6. If the modules are identical, then it should be fine.

 

You're welcome already. lol :)

It's a computer!
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (OS) 3 TB Toshiba P300 (storage) Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate Basic, but premium round 
AudioAudio
X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
  hide details  
Reply
It's a computer!
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (OS) 3 TB Toshiba P300 (storage) Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate Basic, but premium round 
AudioAudio
X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
  hide details  
Reply
post #3 of 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatygun View Post

This is what my motherboard supports:
Quote:
Supports four unbuffered DIMM of 1.5 Volt DDR3 1066/1333/1600*/2000*/2133* (OC) DRAM, 16GB Max
- Supports 1Gb/ 2Gb/ 4Gb DRAM size
- Supports Dual channel mode

The largest supported size is 4 Gig, and the total amount on memory supported is 16 Gigs.So, obviously the max memory amount would be 4 x 4 gig sticks.

I currently got 4x2gb dual channel 1333mhz memory inside my pc. And i just need a expansion so i either end up with 16 or even more gb in total.

As stated above 16 Gigs is the max you can install.

My questions are:

1) Can my motherboard support 2x8gb modules?

Again, NO. See above.

2) can i mix 1333mhz with 2133 mhz modules?

Yes, but they will all run at the speed of the slowest

3) I benchmark a lot, will 2133 result in better scores over 1600mhz or 1333mhz modules?

Of course. But how much depends on a lot of things.

4) how does this cl thing work, the lower the better right? but does both sets of ram have to be the same on cl amount?

See below

5) what is better higher mhz ram or lower cl ram?

That's like asking "Which is bigger, red or blue" - there is no answer. See below.

6) can you mix up 2x2 with 2x8 modules of the same type?

No. See above - your motherboard only supports 4 gig sticks, not 8 Gig.

Thanks already.

A little memory information you need to understand.

CL (CAS Latency - usually called CAS in specs and in BIOSs) is just one of about 30 memory "timings"

Memory sticks are made up of a bunch of capacitors. These are the ICs (integrated circuits), the little black squares on the memory sticks. Each one of those squares has billions of capacitors in it - one Gigabit - GB - equals 1,000,000,000 bits or 1 billion capacitors.

A capacitor can be charged up with electricity, much like a battery (but, unlike a battery, a capacitor will only remain charges for a very short time). Digitally, a charged capacitor is read as a one and an uncharged capacitor is read as a zero and that's how information (data) is stored, written to, read from and moved around in memory stick.

CL (CAS) timing is the amount of time (in clock ticks) it takes the memory stick to complete the CAS operation.
CAS is the delay time (in clock ticks) between the moment a memory controller tells the memory module to access a particular place (capacitor) on a RAM module, and the moment the data from the given place is available on the module's output pins.

So, that amount of time is:
For CL 5 memory running at 2000 MHz - 5 clock ticks at 2.000,000 clock ticks per second,
5 X 1/2,000,000 seconds - or 1/400,000 th of a second.

For CL 10 memory running at 4000 MHz - 10 clock ticks at 4.000,000 clock ticks per second,
10 X 1/4,000,000 seconds - or 1/400,000 th of a second.. Note that is is the exact same time as the above

For CL 5 memory running at 4000 MHz - 5 clock ticks at 4.000,000 clock ticks per second,
5 X 1/4,000,000 seconds - or 1/800,000 th of a second. Note that this is twice as fast (half the time) as either of the above.

So your question 5) what is better higher mhz ram or lower cl ram? would be answered by saying it depends on what CL at what speed.

Note that memory sticks have to do a lot of different things (other than CAS) with the digital data stored on them. In fact there are over 20 different "timings", all of which effect overall memory performance and stability.

As for all the sticks having the same CAS rating:
When a computer starts up it reads the speed - clock ticks" you have set in the BIOS. It then reads the SPD tables that are programmed into the memory modules (See CPU-Z's SPD display) and sets the memory's speed and timings based in those two parameters. Of course you can override the default settings for either and set them manually in the BIOS.

The issue is that the computer only reads the SPD table from the stick that is closest to the memory controller and that's usually the stick in memory slot #1. If the other stick(s) need different timings that that either they will fail (timings to short - not enough clock ticks for the memory to do what it has to do), or the memory will under-perform (it is ready to go on to the next step of what it has to do, but is waiting to many clock ticks before it does so).

Of course you can manually set all the timings in the BIOS to those of the "slower" sticks. But either way the faster sticks will be under-performing (ie, wasting clock ticks).

The best thing to do is to buy all your memory as a "matched set". Then all will be able to run at the same speed and timings, whether that's the default speed (as read from the SPD tables), or any stable overclocked speed and timings you set in the BIOS. all without wasting performance (clock ticks) nor spending to much money on memory that's going to have to run slow anyway to match other sticks.

Hope that helps.....


This tome should be a sticky!
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX6300 Black M5A99X EVO R2.0 Nvidia GTS450 Team Vulcan PC3 12800 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 PRO Asus DRW-1608P (x2) Custom Water Cooling Win7 (Ult), Win 8.1 & Win Server 2012 R2 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2 X Samsung 915N Ducky Shine III, Blue Cherry/Blue LEDs PCP&C 1kw Lian Li PC-71 (W/Window) 
MouseAudio
Logiteck G400s none 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX6300 Black M5A99X EVO R2.0 Nvidia GTS450 Team Vulcan PC3 12800 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 PRO Asus DRW-1608P (x2) Custom Water Cooling Win7 (Ult), Win 8.1 & Win Server 2012 R2 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2 X Samsung 915N Ducky Shine III, Blue Cherry/Blue LEDs PCP&C 1kw Lian Li PC-71 (W/Window) 
MouseAudio
Logiteck G400s none 
  hide details  
Reply
post #4 of 5
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

  1. No, it says it only supports up to 4 GB per module.
  2. You can't mix 1333 MHz and 2133 MHz memory. Even if you tried, the 2133 MHz memory would be forced to run at 1333 MHz.
  3. Yeah, 2133 MHz should give you much better memory benchmarking scores.
  4. The timings are in milliseconds. For CAS # Latency, the faster the better. Both memory modules need to have the same timings, or else the slower timings (higher numbers) will be used for both modules.
  5. I'm still not sure. lol
  6. If the modules are identical, then it should be fine.

You're welcome already. lol smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbartuska View Post

A little memory information you need to understand.

CL (CAS Latency - usually called CAS in specs and in BIOSs) is just one of about 30 memory "timings"

Memory sticks are made up of a bunch of capacitors. These are the ICs (integrated circuits), the little black squares on the memory sticks. Each one of those squares has billions of capacitors in it - one Gigabit - GB - equals 1,000,000,000 bits or 1 billion capacitors.

A capacitor can be charged up with electricity, much like a battery (but, unlike a battery, a capacitor will only remain charges for a very short time). Digitally, a charged capacitor is read as a one and an uncharged capacitor is read as a zero and that's how information (data) is stored, written to, read from and moved around in memory stick.

CL (CAS) timing is the amount of time (in clock ticks) it takes the memory stick to complete the CAS operation.
CAS is the delay time (in clock ticks) between the moment a memory controller tells the memory module to access a particular place (capacitor) on a RAM module, and the moment the data from the given place is available on the module's output pins.

So, that amount of time is:
For CL 5 memory running at 2000 MHz - 5 clock ticks at 2.000,000 clock ticks per second,
5 X 1/2,000,000 seconds - or 1/400,000 th of a second.

For CL 10 memory running at 4000 MHz - 10 clock ticks at 4.000,000 clock ticks per second,
10 X 1/4,000,000 seconds - or 1/400,000 th of a second.. Note that is is the exact same time as the above

For CL 5 memory running at 4000 MHz - 5 clock ticks at 4.000,000 clock ticks per second,
5 X 1/4,000,000 seconds - or 1/800,000 th of a second. Note that this is twice as fast (half the time) as either of the above.

So your question 5) what is better higher mhz ram or lower cl ram? would be answered by saying it depends on what CL at what speed.

Note that memory sticks have to do a lot of different things (other than CAS) with the digital data stored on them. In fact there are over 20 different "timings", all of which effect overall memory performance and stability.

As for all the sticks having the same CAS rating:
When a computer starts up it reads the speed - clock ticks" you have set in the BIOS. It then reads the SPD tables that are programmed into the memory modules (See CPU-Z's SPD display) and sets the memory's speed and timings based in those two parameters. Of course you can override the default settings for either and set them manually in the BIOS.

The issue is that the computer only reads the SPD table from the stick that is closest to the memory controller and that's usually the stick in memory slot #1. If the other stick(s) need different timings that that either they will fail (timings to short - not enough clock ticks for the memory to do what it has to do), or the memory will under-perform (it is ready to go on to the next step of what it has to do, but is waiting to many clock ticks before it does so).

Of course you can manually set all the timings in the BIOS to those of the "slower" sticks. But either way the faster sticks will be under-performing (ie, wasting clock ticks).

The best thing to do is to buy all your memory as a "matched set". Then all will be able to run at the same speed and timings, whether that's the default speed (as read from the SPD tables), or any stable overclocked speed and timings you set in the BIOS. all without wasting performance (clock ticks) nor spending to much money on memory that's going to have to run slow anyway to match other sticks.

Hope that helps.....


This tome should be a sticky!

Thanks for the help, this helped me alot.

As i pretty much have to buy all my ram all over again then, i will probably buy 4 sticks of 4gb to get 16gb and call it a day which is the max.

I got the following modules that come forwards with 1,5v solutions ( as that's what my motherboard supports ).

1) G.Skill Sniper F3-2133C10Q-16GSR (4x4gb, 10 cas, 2133mhz) 110 euro
2) G.Skill 16GB PC3-14900 (F3-14900CL8Q-16GBZM) ( 4x4gb, 8 cas, 1866mhz ) 113 euro
3) G.Skill RipjawsZ F3-12800CL7Q-16GBZM ( 4x4gb, 1600mhz, 7 cas ) 113 euro

So calculated it's:

1) 213.300
2) 233.250
3) 288.571

My own: 148.111 ( 1333 / 9 )

So the 3rd option would be the best it seems, as it gains pretty much twice the speed?

This is what i got now.

I currently have a mixed bag of memory it seems. I checked cpu-z and this is what it came forwards with.



Some of it runs at 1,5v others at 1,65v, everything is all over the place.


What would make the best solution for me to go forwards as all the memory pretty much cost the same
Edited by gatygun - 11/9/15 at 7:26am
post #5 of 5
Wherer you are now:
631.3 Mhz (from CPU-Z) x 2 = 1262.6 Mhz
9 clock ticks = 9 x 1/1262.6 MHz
9 x 1/1262600000 = 0.000000007923930 seconds for CAS to complete

For example:
1) G.Skill Sniper F3-2133C10Q-16GSR (4x4gb, 10 cas, 2133mhz) 110 euro
2133 Mhz
10 clock ticks = 10 x 1/2133
10 x 1/213300000 = 0.000000042194093 seconds for CAS to complete

(0.000000007923930 seconds - 0.000000042194093) / 0.000000042194093 = 69.02% faster.

And that's just CAS, there are a lot more different timings.

Here's a screen shot of them from a memory modifying program

As for what memory to buy that gets even more confusing.
Long story short:
All memory manufacturers "bin" their memory.
:Binning" is a process of taking all the memory a manufacturer makes in one batch (maybe 1000 sticks?) and testing it all with all possible timings and speeds.

All the CL 10 1066 memory goes into the cl 10 1066 bin
all the CL 9 1066 memory goes int the CL 9 1066 bin
all the CL 8 1066 memory goes int the CL 8 1066 bin
.
.
.
until, finally...
all the CL 7 3400 Mhz memory goes into the CL 7 3400 Mhz bin (or whatever memory/bin was the fastest).

So now the memory manufacturer has divided all his memory into bins, from slowest to fastest..
He then decides what charge for the memory in each bin.
Of course he will sell the fastest memory for the most money.

So the answer to your question is to buy the fastest memory you can afford.

As for overclocking:
Overclocking binned memory most always won't get you much improvement, as the manufacturer has already tested it and if it would have been able to be faster he would have put it in a higher bin (and sold it for more money)
That's not to say binned memory won't ever be able to be massively overclocked, it' just not very unlikely to happen.
It can , and does, happen though. For example, if a manufacturer needs a lot of slower memory to satisfy a big customer (a re-sellers like Newegg) but doesn't have enough memory in the slow bin, he may sell higher binned memory as slower memory just to satisfy his customer. What usually happens then is that the interwebs fill up with reports of this "wonder Ram" like what happened with some Samsung memory a few years ago.

There's great variability in ICs too (the little black squares on the memory sticks). a stick that has 8 ICs may have 6 fast ones and two slow ones! I once had access to "custom binned" memory. The manufacturer binned the ICs first and then built memory with the fastest ICs, then billed that memory. I was able to get memory that overclocked well over 300% of spec! Now, the only people able to get access tot hat kind of stuff are the sponsored, world record holding overclockers - and they get it for free!

And stay away from using XMP profiles in your BIOS. They change a lot more than just the things you can see, and each motherboard manufacturer implements XMP differently so there's no predicting what will happen, which leads to not knowing how to fix a motherboard that won't post or that isn't stable. Set all memory settings in the BIOS manually. Then you know whats going on and undo what you have done and fix problems.

There are a lot more "timings" than CAS. Here's a screen shot of most of the timings for the memory I have installed now.


Edited by billbartuska - 11/9/15 at 9:53am
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX6300 Black M5A99X EVO R2.0 Nvidia GTS450 Team Vulcan PC3 12800 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 PRO Asus DRW-1608P (x2) Custom Water Cooling Win7 (Ult), Win 8.1 & Win Server 2012 R2 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2 X Samsung 915N Ducky Shine III, Blue Cherry/Blue LEDs PCP&C 1kw Lian Li PC-71 (W/Window) 
MouseAudio
Logiteck G400s none 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX6300 Black M5A99X EVO R2.0 Nvidia GTS450 Team Vulcan PC3 12800 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 PRO Asus DRW-1608P (x2) Custom Water Cooling Win7 (Ult), Win 8.1 & Win Server 2012 R2 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2 X Samsung 915N Ducky Shine III, Blue Cherry/Blue LEDs PCP&C 1kw Lian Li PC-71 (W/Window) 
MouseAudio
Logiteck G400s none 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Memory
Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Memory › MSI P55-GD65 need some advice on memory.