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[Fox] Volkswagen to pay $1000 per vehicle to owners - Page 3

post #21 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

People are going to care when their vehicles can't pass inspection, or need an expensive new catalytic converter.

Isn't it just a firmware update?
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post #22 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post

Isn't it just a firmware update?

There is likely no firmware-only fix that will allow the vehicles to achieve both the originally rated emissions and the rated performance, simultaneously. If there was, that's the firmware that would have been used in testing, not the cheatware that reduced performance in lab tests to pass. Running it in test mode will just leave you with a vehicle with less horsepower, less torque, and worse fuel economy than you thought you where buying.

A full fix would likely require a better catalytic converter, better NOx trap, and/or SRC, probably on top of new firmware.
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post #23 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post

Isn't it just a firmware update?

You are essentially correct, as far as 2015 models are concerned. If or how VAG intends to update the previous 2 generations of Diesel is anyone guess. SOURCE

Diesels don't have Catalytic Converters, they never have. Cats need to be in the range of 800F to operate properly, diesels don't run hot enough to effectively use them. At least that's what I've always been told. Modern diesels do however have a DPF (diesel particulate filter) that is designed to take some of the soot out of the exhaust emissions. Modern diesels also use Urea injected into the exhaust to further limit emissions. It's commonly called DEF (diesel exhaust fluid). That is one of the reasons why VAG has gotten themselves in trouble. Instead of installing a DEF system in their diesel applications, they decided they would be better off pocketing the approximately $400 each system would cost.

Here is a story about a guy taking his VW diesel in for emmissions. Here is and article with a linked video of Dyno tests on one of the cheater diesels.
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post #24 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post

Isn't it just a firmware update?

The firmware update will either make peoples HP go down or their gas mileage, or both. It will also require that the car receive maintenance much more often to recharge the emissions system which will also cost the owners quite a bit more over the years they own the car (has to be serviced a minimum of 2x as often for that one job). So while it may not require an expensive new piece of hardware, it does require expensive new maintenance. Easily costing more than the $1000. Volkswagon is definitely going to face some lawsuits over this
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

There is likely no firmware-only fix that will allow the vehicles to achieve both the originally rated emissions and the rated performance, simultaneously. If there was, that's the firmware that would have been used in testing, not the cheatware that reduced performance in lab tests to pass. Running it in test mode will just leave you with a vehicle with less horsepower, less torque, and worse fuel economy than you thought you where buying.

A full fix would likely require a better catalytic converter, better NOx trap, and/or SRC, probably on top of new firmware.

And yet that would still decrease the horsepower.
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post #25 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post

The firmware update will either make peoples HP go down or their gas mileage, or both. It will also require that the car receive maintenance much more often to recharge the emissions system which will also cost the owners quite a bit more over the years they own the car (has to be serviced a minimum of 2x as often for that one job). So while it may not require an expensive new piece of hardware, it does require expensive new maintenance. Easily costing more than the $1000. Volkswagon is definitely going to face some lawsuits over this.

Buuut that's money they woulda paid if it had been right in the first place, am I no?

And to think, back in the day people only sued when the car blew up or rolled over on them like a dead horse.
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post #26 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post

Buuut that's money they woulda paid if it had been right in the first place, am I no?

And to think, back in the day people only sued when the car blew up or rolled over on them like a dead horse.

You are not understanding the point. The car was advertised as not having to do those services as often, a selling point of the car. Now Volkswagon is going back on what was advertised and sold and requiring significantly more money for the service of the car.
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post #27 of 70
This is certainly a small step in the right direction. If it means that you opt out of the ability to be apart of one of the class action lawsuits or any further compensation I will probably pass. I'm just glad I live in Michigan where we have no emissions testing and I can keep driving mine without fixing it. This could be a serious issue for those living in states where their cars need to be clean to drive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post

Buuut that's money they woulda paid if it had been right in the first place, am I no?

And to think, back in the day people only sued when the car blew up or rolled over on them like a dead horse.

While I'm sure it was certainly apart of saving money these systems also reduce fuel efficiency which would have made the effected vehicles much less desirable. And as was mentioned they create an added maintenance cost further hurting their appeal.
 
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post #28 of 70
Honestly, I think nothing less of VW than I did before. It's a great product. I'm fortunate to live in a state where absolutely no inspections are required, and we often just remove pesky nox, dpf, and cat canisters, as they simply bog down a diesel engine's exhaust. I know it's made a remarkable difference for me, going from around 300 rwhp to 475 with just removal of that junk (it just happened to mysteriously "fall off"), and an efi live. I understand that at one point in the past, namely when most vehicles were carbureted and at least slightly out of tune, these kinds of systems were necessary to keep down smog in over populated areas. Oh well, too bad they got caught.. .I hope the used price comes down, as I'd love to own a TDI Jetta with 20% over injectors, tuned, a 3" straight pipe, and cai!
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post #29 of 70
I guess you're right. Consumer protection law is such a murky field these days.
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post #30 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerJohn View Post

I'm wondering if the fine print will read something along the lines of:

"By accepting this recompense you agree that you have been fully compensated for all losses, both now and in the future, related to this issue, and waive the right to seek further compensation for this or future losses."

Or some other legally worded way out for VW.

Oh absolutely!

For people who just bought a $25,000 Jetta just months ago, they'll be lucky to get $9k for it....

The product purchased (with all that perceived value) just flew out the window.
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