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post #11 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega Man View Post

Amazing. Ek wants you to use their premixed stuff. .... who would of thought. ..

did you ever read Martin's liquidlab?

I laugh at this whole anti corrosion fad going on atm. Use copper and brass. No worry about it.

Read EK's statement carefully. They state that you should use a proven fluid not simply just EK's.

Also you need to read Martin's website carefully as well.!...as even Martin came to the conclusion that corrosion inhibitors are a requirement after he himself experienced corrosion on one of his rads.

You need to be mindful that our loops are NOT simply made up from Copper, Brass and Nickel components. While those three are the obvious ones, many people forget that solder alloys are present in the system inside your radiators. These alloys contain a variety of metals eg: lead, zinc, tin and a few others - all of which add to the cocktail of metals which can cause corrosion.

If the conditions are right corrosion can take hold quite easily...you see many cases of this on OCN where people have run distilled water without any form of corrosion inhibitors and have then run into trouble.
Edited by Costas - 11/10/15 at 9:11pm
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post #12 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Costas View Post

Here is EK's take on the matter....https://ekwb.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205235141-Antimicrobial-algae-protection-

Of course they would say that... they want you to buy from them rolleyes.gif

Dont get me wrong, most of my loop is EK... but marketing is marketing.

Edit - I note and acknowledge Costas' comment above.
Edited by Sethy666 - 11/10/15 at 9:10pm
post #13 of 21
I used just a silver coil along with regular distilled water in my loop for years, and I never had any issues.

One of the things I did do to make sure the silver was getting into the water was to position it directly in the flow over water.
This sometimes meant actually putting the coil against the intake of a pump so water had to flow past it and sorta through it.
post #14 of 21
Thread Starter 
So what are the steps to avoid corrosion in a loop?

Does the loop need to be drained and replenished every so often to avoid it?
post #15 of 21
Both nickel and copper can reduce silver ions dissolved in water, just that nickel does it more readily.

Copper sulfate is perfectly fine especially in the dilute amounts you use in your loop. Sulfate is non-reactive, and while nickel will slowly reduce copper, the amount you need for biocidal effect is a non-issue.

I also mentioned the non--metal version of PT Nuke with benzalkonium chloride. Just don't use a dyed coolant because ion exchange can happen, and the dye may start precipitating out from solution and clog up your blocks. I use fluorescein dye in my loop, and out of curiosity I took a small sample of my coolant and mixed it with one drop of PT Nuke. After just a week I saw some solids forming. Granted the PT Nuke is much more concentrated than it should be, but the risk is there.

Just for reference ran my loop with about 30 milligrams of fluorescein sodium in ~900 mL of water and no corrosion inhibitor/biocide. 10 months later no algae growth or block corrosion observed. Heavy staining sure, but no corrosion.
Edited by magnek - 11/10/15 at 9:21pm
post #16 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega Man View Post

Personal pref.

No other reason. You can use silver and nickel. It is recommended not to

Wow, so even with a silver Coil they're showing algae growth is still problematic?

And yes I just plan on running plain RO/DI water with UV reactive tubing.
post #17 of 21
The thing with distilled water is that it quickly becomes non-distilled after absorbing ions from the metals in our loops.

Once it is sufficiently ionised (sufficiently conductive) it then opens the door for corrosion issues. Trick here is to change water frequently to keep the ionisation process at relatively low levels and thereby slowing down the corrosion process.

In some loops this process will be much quicker than others simply due to the specific components utilised in their loop. So while someone may run say for a year and not visibly notice any corrosion, someone else may only get six months out of their system... Its not something anyone can really give a guarantee or timeframe on due to all the variables present.

Only other option is to utilise a proven corrosion inhibitor such as glycol based coolants. This chemical is a proven inhibitor and that is why it is used in many PC coolant brands as it is a known/proven entity.

I myself simply use diluted automotive car coolant as its cheap and works extremely well (if you can manage the toxicity issue and are ok with the limited colour options).

The very fact that my copper blocks do not even oxidise internally (they remain as shiny as new) when using a coolant such as this indicates that it works quite well in minimising corrosion. Hoever if one simply utilises DI on its own it does not take long for copper internals to turn black, and while this is regarded as normal in WC circles it does indicate that low level corrosion is actually taking place.
Edited by Costas - 11/10/15 at 9:37pm
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post #18 of 21
Realy?
Quote:
Conclusion

I don’t think it is possible to completely stop galvanic corrosion from occurring, but we can reduce it by:

Eliminating direct electrical contact of dissimilar metals (Plastic top/unplated copper base blocks)
Reduce Electrolytic Conditions – Reduce areas where water is stagnant, flow is your friend. Regular maintenance and complete cleaning of the block/pieces probably helps too.
Improve plating processes and increase plating thicknesses.
Slow the process with corrosion inhibitors in the fluid
Slow the process using a sacrificial anode in system running plain water.

But I don’t think you will completely stop corrosion. The idea is to keep it at bay long enough and/or reduce it for the intended service life. Unless you made the entire loop of one metal or kept all the metal parts from touching one another, you will have the potential for galvanic corrosion to occur.

Cheers!

https://Martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2012/01/24/corrosion-explored/
Quote:
CORROSION BLOCKER

I do also support the idea when using plated products and absolutely recommend it if you plan to mix metals such as aluminum and copper in the same loop. Water is corrosive and despite the efforts plating is NOT perfect. A corrosion blocker is nothing more than a way to “Slow” the process of corrosion and even that under the right conditions can lead to plating failure. I personally have not had a problem with plating fail, but I have seen many many examples of it. Plated aluminum in a copper/brass loop is a sure failure waiting to happen, and plated copper one of those “possible” problems. Even plated brass after several years has a tendency to flake under the right conditions.

We are running closed loops where galvanic corrosion can and will occur with enough time under the right conditions. You can determine the anodic index between dissimilar metals using charts such at the one presented here.


https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2012/01/02/distilled-water-is-the-king-of-water-cooling/3/

Yep. Still not seeing any requirements. Even in the last article. I see where he used just distilled water and pt nuke 11mo in one and 2yrs in another.
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post #19 of 21
The catch is that we are always 'mixing' metals. Martin even alludes to this regarding the solder in our rads. Its just that the solder is not in tha same qty as say the amount of copper in our loops.

Even our copper rads are not genuine 100% copper....You will find that the copper purity varies between manufacturers let alone the type of solder they all use.

Fact is that distilled water becomes less distilled over time when poured into our systems and then you simply end up with plain water.

You cannot automatically apply your experience to everyone elses hardware setup without science to back it up. We would need to analyse the exact material/chemical makeup of every different loop which simply does not happen.

Like I stated before there are many examples of corrosion on this forum whereby users have not utilised any anti corrosion additives just distilled, so how do we explain these...?

I have yet to see one instance of loop corrosion where users have been utilising automotive or other true glycol bssed coolants.

Note that even glycol based coolants do not stop corrosion per se... They simply extend the period whereby the fluid can still keep corrosion to a minimum.

So to play it safe manufacturers like EK specify proven chemicals such as glycol for corrosion protection in our loops.
Edited by Costas - 11/10/15 at 11:44pm
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post #20 of 21
Silver coils with distilled water and nickel plated blocks are no perfect combination. We had a handful of complaints over the last years with customers claiming their nickel plating starts to vanish. The interesting thing is pretty much all of them had one thing in common: they used just distilled water with a silver coil and if I remember correctly these loops were also already running for a while.
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