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[ExtremeTech, Ars] [Updated] Vizio TVs caught tracking viewing habits, selling data to advertisers + Hacked - Page 4

post #31 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Read my post just above yours. And read the Ars source in the OP. You're wrong, Netflix doesn't get access to partial screenshots of your family videos, does it?

Oh, and those companies don't honour when they give you a choice to say "No"? I hope you just jumped over that part (and the part about using lousy security) for argument's sake.

Securing your network is the onus of the end user...If you don't secure your network properly than, you will get hacked which is the situation in the OP...

Yes, they actually do...Amazon will monitor your habits regardless of what you opt in or out of, as does Netflix - It's in their EULA's.

You can't really complain about a TV having lackluster security when the end user of that network didn't even lock it down.

Just like you can't really yell at a baby if I steal his lolli and mock him while I eat it.
post #32 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post


Source.



Rule number one when using a Smart TV: do not connect it to the Internet ever.




Edit: And it doesn't respect people's choices (like the LG TV sets a few months ago)... and it communicated without security... and it's been hacked.

Ars:



Why would you buy a smart TV? That defeats the whole point of netflix. Hence the name, get it, NET flix. Trust me once you go commercial free you can't go back. Yes no commercials any where, ever! I hate commercials.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBZ323 View Post

I was looking at buying a vizio smart TV last night!! Glad to read this.

I liked how slim they are and the fact that netflix is embedded and I dont need to add a device like Roku.

I dont like that they sell all your info.
I'm kind of sick of hearing how all these companies sell all your info just because they buried some cryptic clause in the terms of service.

I wonder what is there to sell? There is a browser, but I've never used it. In fact the only thing I've ever used is netflix.
I had a google chromecast. It was very slow. Thing is I didn't know it was slow until I got my smart tv!!!

Once I fired up my vizio. I couldn't believe the difference, or the picture. I was a cable tv maintenance man for 18 years, so I'm pretty dam picky about the picture.
Compare vizio to others. About the only thing that can beat it is 4k.
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post #33 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Securing your network is the onus of the end user...If you don't secure your network properly than, you will get hacked which is the situation in the OP...

Yes, they actually do...Amazon will monitor your habits regardless of what you opt in or out of, as does Netflix - It's in their EULA's.

You can't really complain about a TV having lackluster security when the end user of that network didn't even lock it down.

Just like you can't really yell at a baby if I steal his lolli and mock him while I eat it.


What on earth are you talking about? First you pretend that what you said wasn't debunked, and then you go on saying that Netflix and Amazon don't respect your decision when they give you an explicit option to opt out? Are you having a serious discussion here or just making nonsense arguments? The article says very clearly that during the TV setup they allow you to opt out of this but that the software doesn't respect that setting. I would qualify that as criminal if it's on purpose and it should obviously be fixed in either case.

Unless you think that it's pretty normal for corporations to be hypocrites and offer options that they don't intend to honour anyway.


Also, it's not really realistic to expect your average consumers to be ITs in order to conduct tests like this Anti-virus company did to know what their TVs are doing behind their backs and thus know what appropriate measures to take.

At this point you're just making arguments for the sake of it. It's astounding how far you're willing to go to defend companies. So you're only entitled to complain about a company not honouring an option they gave you, a company that sends partial screenshots of your family videos to ad companies and that has lousy security after you've secured your network?

I wonder if you would actually abolish all consumer protection legislation if you had the power to. After all, you take caveat emptor to the pinnacle of ridicule.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFPS View Post


Why would you buy a smart TV? That defeats the whole point of netflix. Hence the name, get it, NET flix. Trust me once you go commercial free you can't go back. Yes no commercials any where, ever! I hate commercials.

More expensive TV's are increasingly Smart TVs (and perhaps one day all of them will be), so your choices are limited, hence the advice, if using one, don't connect it to the Internet. And that is sound advice that most people familiar with them will tell you. They are basically TVs with the equivalent of a tablet's internals and more simplified OS. But since you keep TVs for a lot longer than smartphones and tablets, the likelihood of the manufacturer dropping support after the first years is like 100%, so you end up with a vulnerable system anyway, not to mention that their care in the first place is beyond mediocre.
Edited by tpi2007 - 11/11/15 at 7:02pm
 
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post #34 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

What on earth are you talking about? First you pretend that what you said wasn't debunked, and then you go on saying that Netflix and Amazon don't respect your decision when they give you an explicit option to opt out? Are you having a serious discussion here or just making nonsense arguments? The article says very clearly that during the TV setup they allow you to opt out of this but that the software doesn't respect that setting. I would qualify that as criminal if it's on purpose and it should obviously be fixed in either case.

Unless you think that it's pretty normal for corporations to be hypocrites and offer options that they don't intend to honour anyway.

Also, it's not really realistic to expect your average consumers to be ITs in order to conduct tests like this Anti-virus company did to know what their TVs are doing behind their backs and thus know what appropriate measures to take.

At this point you're just making arguments for the sake of it. It's astounding how far you're willing to go to defend companies. So you're only entitled to complain about a company not honouring an option they gave you, a company that sends partial screenshots of your family videos to ad companies and that has lousy security after you've secured your network?

I wonder if you would actually abolish all consumer protection legislation if you had the power to. After all, you take caveat emptor to the pinnacle of ridicule.

It wasn't.

Read the OP - It's an open network. Thus, it's the onus of the end user to have a SECURE network, WAP2, even when access would've saved the entire network from being compromised...Hell, even requiring a basic password, would've denied network access so, no, you didn't debunk anything, you're simply too inept to understand the concept. If you leave a SmartTV on an UNSECURED network, than absolutely, you are vulnerable to attacks but, once again, the onus of SECURING his/her network is on the end user. Anyone dumb enough to not secure their entire network in 2015, quite frankly, deserves to be hacked.

Further. Yes, both Netflix and Amazon have been caught pilfering data when the end users opted out. In fact, in both of their recent EULA updates, they changed them so that, they could skim data without alerting the customer...In fact, it's well known that Hulu already does this to target ads at you, themselves...But, Hulu was smart because even in the commercial free version, their EULA gives them the ability to skim the same data. So, it's actually irrelevant what the TV asks you to do when everyone else is blatantly skimming your data.

In 2015, it is normal. It's normal because everyone else does it and has simply become the status quot. Calling Vizio "despicable" when the precedent was set by EVERYONE ELSE long before them, is literally taking a page out of Daffy Duck's book...

No. Sorry. It's not a "test". They were able to hack an unsecured network - Boohoo. A 2 year old could hack an unsecured network. They did NOT gain access to a WAP/WAP2 network. If they had, THEN and only then would we actually have a conversation about "hacking" because it would've been an actual threat but, gaining access to a LIVE PC's files (Note that the PC was actually ON) through a Vizio really isn't the end of society...Or "despicable".

No. I made a logical argument that presented facts. Your inability to understand those facts led to your rebut which, was lacking in actual facts.

Facts are: Secure your network, you'll have no problems. Don't secure your network, the 12 y/o next door has access to your porn stash.

As to your last quip, I'm actually a HUGE supporter of the 4th amendment and I view intrusions into your personal information as a constitutional violation - However, with my views, I accept reality and the reality is that sheep have allowed the wolves into the pens to graze for long enough that now we have cross-bread sheep/wolves and in order to eradicate the enemy, the flock must be annihilated. Until that happens, there is no way to gain a foothold. - Welcome to real life.
Edited by Masked - 11/12/15 at 7:01am
post #35 of 44
Curious, why does everyone say to stay at 96hz for a multiple of 24 when 60 hz, what most tvs are, arent a multiple of 24 and they work fine?
    
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post #36 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluemustang View Post

Curious, why does everyone say to stay at 96hz for a multiple of 24 when 60 hz, what most tvs are, arent a multiple of 24 and they work fine?
they do 3:2 pulldown if they aren't multiples of 24
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post #37 of 44
TLDR: Pretty much everyone and everything sells your data.
 
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post #38 of 44
Everyone has been trained to somehow accept this awful behavior, but also defend it when it gets called out.
Very disturbing.
post #39 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by DweeB0 View Post

Everyone has been trained to somehow accept this awful behavior, but also defend it when it gets called out.
Very disturbing.

 

Until lawsuits start flying, its going to be done regardless of it being called out or not.

post #40 of 44
I say this is well deserved then.
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