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Asus ROG Swift PG348Q Worth waiting for? - Page 44  

post #431 of 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagnelles View Post

I'm a bit concerned about overall image quality on VA panels. Can you tell me from experience if they're good?

You have a TV? If so, what model/year? Pretty much every TV is VA. IPS and TN are better in motion clarity generally speaking (well TN always is, IPS is more dependent on the models but the fastest IPS monitors have better motion clarity than any VA) although with blur reduction this point is basically moot. Although I have to say, comparing my 60 Hz Vizio VA TV to my Acer Predator XB270HU running at 60 Hz (due to running at 60 FPS with G-SYNC enabled) and overdrive on normal, the two perform extremely similarly in motion clarity and none have a definitive edge.

Otherwise VA image quality annihilates IPS and TN, mostly due to contrast and black levels. VA static contrast is usually around 3000:1 (expect that from these upcoming 3440 x 1440 144 Hz monitors) with much deeper blacks. IPS and TN blacks are obviously just dark grey in comparison which is quite pathetic frankly, and IPS is even worse due to glow. The contrast of these IPS monitors (PG348Q, X34, all the 2560 x 1440 144 Hz ones) is only around 1000:1 and TN even less than that.

Color accuracy of modern VA is on par with any IPS display gamers are considering, before and after calibration. VA has "black crush" on the other hand, so some black detail is lost. To see this in action check out this image; VA is on the right, IPS on the left. Or even easier, this contrast test. On a VA display the first two bars will just be black and the third will either be totally black as well or close to it, depending on which specific display you're using. But all the other bars will stand out far more.

Here is another interesting, telling image. VA is on the right, I think IPS is on the left and TN is in the middle but I could have that backwards. Actually IPS might be in the middle because that could be IPS glow we're seeing... anyway the difference is bigger in person since in person you aren't viewing them through a TN or IPS screen. biggrin.gif

This picture shows pure black performance between VA and IPS. Those pictures come from this awesome thread by the way.

There's a reason pretty much everyone uses VA panels in TVs, and that's because IPS and especially TN just don't provide good enough image quality, and because image quality is prioritized for viewing over motion clarity. We have no clue how those 3440 x 1440 144 Hz monitors will fare with regard to motion clarity without blur reduction. The 2560 x 1080 version is a real mixed bag, see these reviews:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/acer_predator_z35.htm

https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/acer-z35/

And also this mini review:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1554247/build-log-vegas-2015-chromed-copper-tube-gaming-system/220#post_24741051

And check out this video posted in the PCMonitors review, where they demonstrate scenarios that bring out the worst of the Z35's motion clarity.

I find the smearing/trailing/ghosting to be very hard to notice. It's most evident on the moving trees against the night sky in the first scene, and the mountain tops in the second scene. This occurs because AUO VA panels tend to have very inconsistent response times with some really fast transitions (notice several under 4 ms and even under 3 ms at 200 Hz in the TFTCentral review), and with high peaks (in this case 55 ms). I expect the 3440 x 1440 ones to be the same to be honest. But for now that's the price we have to pay for superior picture quality, and it's a relatively small price compared to the downsides of IPS (low contrast thus more washed out image, dark grey blacks, IPS glow) and TN (the most gamma shift, lowest contrast, worst color accuracy). Once OLED becomes a real option then there will thankfully be no dilemma other than cost.
Edited by boredgunner - 2/3/16 at 6:55pm
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post #432 of 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredgunner View Post

You have a TV? If so, what model/year? Pretty much every TV is VA. IPS and TN are better in motion clarity generally speaking (well TN always is, IPS is more dependent on the models but the fastest IPS monitors have better motion clarity than any VA) although with blur reduction this point is basically moot. Although I have to say, comparing my 60 Hz Vizio VA TV to my Acer Predator XB270HU running at 60 Hz (due to running at 60 FPS with G-SYNC enabled) and overdrive on normal, the two perform extremely similarly in motion clarity and none have a definitive edge.

Otherwise VA image quality annihilates IPS and TN, mostly due to contrast and black levels. VA static contrast is usually around 3000:1 (expect that from these upcoming 3440 x 1440 144 Hz monitors) with much deeper blacks. IPS and TN blacks are obviously just dark grey in comparison which is quite pathetic frankly, and IPS is even worse due to glow. The contrast of these IPS monitors (PG348Q, X34, all the 2560 x 1440 144 Hz ones) is only around 1000:1 and TN even less than that.

Color accuracy of modern VA is on par with any IPS display gamers are considering, before and after calibration. VA has "black crush" on the other hand, so some black detail is lost. To see this in action check out this image; VA is on the right, IPS on the left. Or even easier, this contrast test. On a VA display the first two bars will just be black and the third will either be totally black as well or close to it, depending on which specific display you're using. But all the other bars will stand out far more.

Here is another interesting, telling image. VA is on the right, I think IPS is on the left and TN is in the middle but I could have that backwards. Actually IPS might be in the middle because that could be IPS glow we're seeing... anyway the difference is bigger in person since in person you aren't viewing them through a TN or IPS screen. biggrin.gif

This picture shows pure black performance between VA and IPS. Those pictures come from this awesome thread by the way.

There's a reason pretty much everyone uses VA panels in TVs, and that's because IPS and especially TN just don't provide good enough image quality, and because image quality is prioritized for viewing over motion clarity. We have no clue how those 3440 x 1440 144 Hz monitors will fare with regard to motion clarity without blur reduction. The 2560 x 1080 version is a real mixed bag, see these reviews:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/acer_predator_z35.htm

https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/acer-z35/

And also this mini review:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1554247/build-log-vegas-2015-chromed-copper-tube-gaming-system/220#post_24741051

And check out this video posted in the PCMonitors review, where they demonstrate scenarios that bring out the worst of the Z35's motion clarity.

I find the smearing/trailing/ghosting to be very hard to notice. It's most evident on the moving trees against the night sky in the first scene, and the mountain tops in the second scene. This occurs because AUO VA panels tend to have very inconsistent response times with some really fast transitions (notice several under 4 ms and even under 3 ms at 200 Hz in the TFTCentral review), and with high peaks (in this case 55 ms). I expect the 3440 x 1440 ones to be the same to be honest. But for now that's the price we have to pay for superior picture quality, and it's a relatively small price compared to the downsides of IPS (low contrast thus more washed out image, dark grey blacks, IPS glow) and TN (the most gamma shift, lowest contrast, worst color accuracy). Once OLED becomes a real option then there will thankfully be no dilemma other than cost.

IPS is much better at colour reproduction and if they start using polarizers in the panel, IPS will be much better than VA

Also VA is quite awful for gaming, due to the points you listed

It will take until 2019 to get a 4K 21.9 OLED monitor, it will take even longer for a 4K 21.9 100hz OLED monitor, as we need DP 1.4
post #433 of 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredgunner View Post

You have a TV? If so, what model/year? Pretty much every TV is VA. IPS and TN are better in motion clarity generally speaking (well TN always is, IPS is more dependent on the models but the fastest IPS monitors have better motion clarity than any VA) although with blur reduction this point is basically moot. Although I have to say, comparing my 60 Hz Vizio VA TV to my Acer Predator XB270HU running at 60 Hz (due to running at 60 FPS with G-SYNC enabled) and overdrive on normal, the two perform extremely similarly in motion clarity and none have a definitive edge.

Otherwise VA image quality annihilates IPS and TN, mostly due to contrast and black levels. VA static contrast is usually around 3000:1 (expect that from these upcoming 3440 x 1440 144 Hz monitors) with much deeper blacks. IPS and TN blacks are obviously just dark grey in comparison which is quite pathetic frankly, and IPS is even worse due to glow. The contrast of these IPS monitors (PG348Q, X34, all the 2560 x 1440 144 Hz ones) is only around 1000:1 and TN even less than that.

Color accuracy of modern VA is on par with any IPS display gamers are considering, before and after calibration. VA has "black crush" on the other hand, so some black detail is lost. To see this in action check out this image; VA is on the right, IPS on the left. Or even easier, this contrast test. On a VA display the first two bars will just be black and the third will either be totally black as well or close to it, depending on which specific display you're using. But all the other bars will stand out far more.

Here is another interesting, telling image. VA is on the right, I think IPS is on the left and TN is in the middle but I could have that backwards. Actually IPS might be in the middle because that could be IPS glow we're seeing... anyway the difference is bigger in person since in person you aren't viewing them through a TN or IPS screen. biggrin.gif

This picture shows pure black performance between VA and IPS. Those pictures come from this awesome thread by the way.

There's a reason pretty much everyone uses VA panels in TVs, and that's because IPS and especially TN just don't provide good enough image quality, and because image quality is prioritized for viewing over motion clarity. We have no clue how those 3440 x 1440 144 Hz monitors will fare with regard to motion clarity without blur reduction. The 2560 x 1080 version is a real mixed bag, see these reviews:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/acer_predator_z35.htm

https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/acer-z35/

And also this mini review:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1554247/build-log-vegas-2015-chromed-copper-tube-gaming-system/220#post_24741051

And check out this video posted in the PCMonitors review, where they demonstrate scenarios that bring out the worst of the Z35's motion clarity.

I find the smearing/trailing/ghosting to be very hard to notice. It's most evident on the moving trees against the night sky in the first scene, and the mountain tops in the second scene. This occurs because AUO VA panels tend to have very inconsistent response times with some really fast transitions (notice several under 4 ms and even under 3 ms at 200 Hz in the TFTCentral review), and with high peaks (in this case 55 ms). I expect the 3440 x 1440 ones to be the same to be honest. But for now that's the price we have to pay for superior picture quality, and it's a relatively small price compared to the downsides of IPS (low contrast thus more washed out image, dark grey blacks, IPS glow) and TN (the most gamma shift, lowest contrast, worst color accuracy). Once OLED becomes a real option then there will thankfully be no dilemma other than cost.

I definetly wasn't expecting such a detailed answer. Thank you very much for all this! Can't wait to be amazed with such a 3440x1440 144hz gaming. I'm actually on my phone so the images are a little glitchy, but I'll see them as soon as I get to the old notebook again smile.gif

About TV's, actually I've never experienced an OLED TV, but they seem to be awesome. I'm planning to buy in a near future the awesome LG 55EG9200 with, hum, pretty much everything: It's an OLED Curved 55" screen, 4K, webOS, and passive 3D. It's one of the best TV models available in my country.
post #434 of 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metros View Post

IPS is much better at colour reproduction and if they start using polarizers in the panel, IPS will be much better than VA

Also VA is quite awful for gaming, due to the points you listed

It will take until 2019 to get a 4K 21.9 OLED monitor, it will take even longer for a 4K 21.9 100hz OLED monitor, as we need DP 1.4

You mean that AT-W polarizer? All that will do is remove IPS glow. Still won't do anything about the washed out image caused by the low contrast and terrible dark-grey blacks. Much better than VA? Honestly that's the stupidest thing I've read all day. It's like nobody here owns a decent modern TV, LOL! IPS and TN are just humiliating in picture quality. They have their advantages, but their disadvantages will always be too big for them to be much better than VA. Just like without strobing, VA's motion clarity will never approach TN.

IPS is not much better at color reproduction. Modern high end TVs measure with lower average deltaE values than these gaming IPS monitors, and most VA monitors are about the same. So, care to elaborate?

I consider IPS and TN to be "quite awful" for gaming due to the points I listed. The picture quality just isn't there. I'm gritting my teeth and holding out with this IPS hunk of junk until the aforementioned 3440 x 1440 144 Hz monitors come out. Of course if you're just a competitive gamer then you won't care about picture quality and will care more about motion clarity, but with backlight strobing they're all nearly equal in this regard. Strobed VA makes IPS and TN almost worthless for gaming if you can maintain a high frame rate in games.

Also I wouldn't even hold my breath for 4k 21:9.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagnelles View Post

I definetly wasn't expecting such a detailed answer. Thank you very much for all this! Can't wait to be amazed with such a 3440x1440 144hz gaming. I'm actually on my phone so the images are a little glitchy, but I'll see them as soon as I get to the old notebook again smile.gif

About TV's, actually I've never experienced an OLED TV, but they seem to be awesome. I'm planning to buy in a near future the awesome LG 55EG9200 with, hum, pretty much everything: It's an OLED Curved 55" screen, 4K, webOS, and passive 3D. It's one of the best TV models available in my country.

Oh and I forgot to mention backlight bleed which is almost never an issue with VA. IPS seems to have it worst.
Edited by boredgunner - 2/3/16 at 7:52pm
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post #435 of 1177
Hold on! how is it some random folk got this monitor already and No reviewers! we need a solid review before the item is out so we can see but those videos listed in the previous page are good also ,
post #436 of 1177
I was in contact with inet.se today, and talked with the product manager. He told me the that, they will get: 4 monitors on the 9th of feb, ~10 monitors on the 12th of feb and then a "large" shipping on the 16th of feb. I was not one of the ppl who would get a shipping on the 9th, but apperently i was in the group who would get the shipping on the 12th of feb.

Four Swedes will apperently own this monitor by the middle/end of next week (week 6) hopefully one of them will write a review/post on this or a swedish tech forum what they think of the monitor.
post #437 of 1177
Just checked review from that Chinese website, and I feel our wait is not worth it at all. That guy in that post said the color is not as good as dell's, specifically dell P2715q. And also he said the only advantage of this monitor is the aspect ratio for gaming. So that's it. I am moving onto 4k for better color accuracy and overall performance. Probably gonna buy a acer xb321hk
post #438 of 1177
My X34 had very good color accuracy out of the box. I measured it with my colorimeter and it actually didn't even need any tweaking from the defaults. I still ended up doing some minor adjustments, but the out of box accuracy was better than any other display I've had.

Reviews all have had excellent color performance as well, strange that the Asus wouldn't as uses same panel
post #439 of 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojans View Post

Just checked review from that Chinese website, and I feel our wait is not worth it at all. That guy in that post said the color is not as good as dell's, specifically dell P2715q. And also he said the only advantage of this monitor is the aspect ratio for gaming. So that's it. I am moving onto 4k for better color accuracy and overall performance. Probably gonna buy a acer xb321hk

I only really saw this "Today, a little tune the color temperature, color a lot to be positive".

Which makes me think once he adjusted it, it was way better.
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post #440 of 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey the Bear View Post

I only really saw this "Today, a little tune the color temperature, color a lot to be positive".

Which makes me think once he adjusted it, it was way better.

For about 1300 plus tax, which is equal to almost 1500. I would rather spend it on a awesome 4k monitor, which gives much batter overall experience. it is true that 21:9 is great for gaming and movie, but hey you dont get 4k with it. and also based on early review the panel may not be as good as x34 or worse, so i think it is not really worth the money at this point, especially the early versions if you know what im saying. I read one line saying when he compared 2715q with it, the difference is clear and obviously the 4k is much better, so that helped me make decision on getting a 4k monitor from now on.
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