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post #881 of 2138
So your mad because the games are not exclusives? Or that Valve is funding anti-exclusives, games for everyone? LOL.
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post #882 of 2138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolern View Post

So your mad because the games are not exclusives? Or that Valve is funding anti-exclusives, games for everyone? LOL.

I am not mad.

I am confused because of the negative sentiment about Oculus helping devs out (which was done publically & transparently , then getting flak because they have the gall to expect a return on that investment, then Valve who have done literally nothing so far to help VR devs get lauded for starting to help devs out with games that will be here in 2 to 3 years. For whom having an exclusive makes no sense from a business perspective since they want to sell games to both HMD owners.

This despite the fact that Oculus are the new kid on the block, attempting to compete with Valve - who are effectively a monopoly in PC games sales and are famous for screwing devs over!
post #883 of 2138
That's definitely a different perspective of looking at it. Me as a consumer only cares about the games, unrestricted and available for everyone.
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post #884 of 2138
Alright I think enough time has gone by where I can stop by and ask this question:

Is it really all that cool? I'm sure by now plenty of you here own an Oculus rift. Is it somehow better than sitting in front of your high visual fidelity monitor? Is it $800-$1200 worth of cool? (seems you can get a used one on ebay for roughly $800) Were you actually amazed? Cause if I'm not like "Man this is cool!!!" then I'm not interested. If its more like: "Eh, its kinda cool I guess" then I probably wouldn't be interested even at a $200 price point.

But I'm willing to pay the high price, no problem, if its really cool. So what do you guys who own one actually think? Was it worth the money? Is it really that much better than sitting in front of your monitor, for gaming?
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post #885 of 2138
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotonFanatic View Post

Alright I think enough time has gone by where I can stop by and ask this question:

Is it really all that cool? I'm sure by now plenty of you here own an Oculus rift. Is it somehow better than sitting in front of your high visual fidelity monitor? Is it $800-$1200 worth of cool? (seems you can get a used one on ebay for roughly $800) Were you actually amazed? Cause if I'm not like "Man this is cool!!!" then I'm not interested. If its more like: "Eh, its kinda cool I guess" then I probably wouldn't be interested even at a $200 price point.

But I'm willing to pay the high price, no problem, if its really cool. So what do you guys who own one actually think? Was it worth the money? Is it really that much better than sitting in front of your monitor, for gaming?


This is what sucks about explaining, basically an ENTIRE NEW MEDIUM.

There is no point of comparison to it whatsoever, the fact that I have to explain it's like that movie "Matrix" to convey what it's like.

Simply because we had nothing like this before, ever. If it takes a sci-fi movie to explain what this medium is, then yes, it is worth it.

Most people have no concept of this, they have no idea of its potential, we are like, the 0.1% early adopters of this. It's like Iphone before Iphone 2007 came out, or the first TV came out, or the first Radio came out, or the first moving picture came out. You get my point.

I have two 4K monitors, played flatscreen games on it, but now it pales, PALES in comparison to the potential of VR. For decades, we've always looked through a window, controlling something through abstracted methods (gamepad, mouse keyboard)

Now, this is basically, YOU ARE in the game, and whatever you do in RL, you do in VR. Swing a baseball bat in RL? Do the same thing in VR, there is no abstraction there. It's why 81 year old grandpas can go on the Vive and go nuts.
And well, no not all of us are Rifters, more like 3-1 ratio of Vivers to Rifters. Just due to Facebook/Oculus's potentially dangerous move of putting exclusives on a peripheral, and if this happens, its like limiting a game to ASUS ROG monitors only. I already explained this point in another post I made before in this thread.

Anyway, Yes, it's worth it. It's the birth of a brave new world, a brave new medium.
     
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post #886 of 2138
Alright well believe it or not, that does help. Couple of points after reading some of this thread though:

1. I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want it to have exclusives. Ever heard of... CONSOLES?? lol So what if its some kind of peripheral. Is that somehow supposed to matter? To me its just another sony playstation. Another Nintendo. Exclusives are a useful tool to help get it off the ground. Consoles have been doing it for years. Its called business. Learn how it works, kids. This isn't free happy fairy magic land where money grows on trees, and everything will succeed just because it made the attempt to exist. If this is actually good, I'd like it to have every advantage to take off instead of flopping on the ground and then no one else dares to try for 10-15 years. Sorry rant over

2. How do you walk forward? You can move your arms and do things, but legs... hmm. You're going to crash into stuff at your house.

3. I'm sure they don't compare, but I still have to ask... how they compare. As usual, a host of knock offs and opportunists have sprung up. I'm not talking about legitimate competitors, like the Vive. What about all the rest? You see ones now that use a cell phone lol. Are those things even worth a... crap? Not that I'd be interested in any of that. Just curious I guess.

They had something like this. years before the occulus was even announced, at disney world. It was some kind of... monkey magic carpet ride thing. The goggles looked like they were the night vision on jurassic park. You got on the "ride" and put on the goggles, and wherever you'd look, of course it would change. It was ok, I wasn't super impressed. I mean it made sense that it would look wherever you were looking. It was pretty cool I guess...
Edited by PhotonFanatic - 6/19/16 at 1:36am
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post #887 of 2138
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotonFanatic View Post

Alright well believe it or not, that does help. Couple of points after reading some of this thread though:

1. I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want it to have exclusives. Ever heard of... CONSOLES?? lol So what if its some kind of peripheral. Is that somehow supposed to matter? To me its just another sony playstation. Another Nintendo. Exclusives are a useful tool to help get it off the ground. Consoles have been doing it for years. Its called business. Learn how it works, kids. This isn't free happy fairy magic land where money grows on trees, and everything will succeed just because it made the attempt to exist. If this is actually good, I'd like it to have every advantage to take off instead of flopping on the ground and then no one else dares to try for 10-15 years. Sorry rant over

2. How do you walk forward? You can move your arms and do things, but legs... hmm. You're going to crash into stuff at your house.

3. I'm sure they don't compare, but I still have to ask... how they compare. As usual, a host of knock offs and opportunists have sprung up. I'm not talking about legitimate competitors, like the Vive. What about all the rest? You see ones now that use a cell phone lol. Are those things even worth a... crap? Not that I'd be interested in any of that. Just curious I guess.


1. Sigh, long rant, no, the exclusives on console vs exclusives on Rift is NOT the same thing and why it should be shot down.

The reason consoles get away with it is because that's their ecosystem, completely self-contained, the Sony/Microsoft invested in their own universe and are free to do that, as hated as it is. But THEY, alone control that ecosystem, from the hardware, OS, everything.

The Oculus Rift's exclusives is not the same thing. Oculus doesn't control the hardware or the OS, all they have is basically a glorified monitor on a head and a storefront, making VR Headsets a PERIPHERAL. When was the last time you had a Asus Monitor that only plays Battlefield 1 and doesn't play on say, a Dell monitor?

They are trying to set a closed garden without even controlling the entire ecosystem's OS or hardware at all, leeching off of our individual hardware and Windows 10 to do so.

That is the difference, and that is why so many people are railing against it. It sets an extremely dangerous precedent. It's a dark future for PC if Facebook/Oculus gets their way.
And admit it, exclusives suck, they're the only reason the consoles have any selling point. Not saying the exclusive game sucks, but the fact that they're EXCLUSIVE is what sucks. Yes, I would love to play the new God of War on my PC, but no, I can't, Sony restricts it to PS4 and I basically have to pay $300 and the game.

Now imagine that, but for a glorified monitor. At least Sony controls their ecosystem top to bottom. Oculus does not, and they don't have the same advantage that the console makers do.

2. I've walked all over my room and did not break my monitors or anything, it's called Chaperone, and basically it's a Tron-like grid that pops up whether you get too close to your real world wall, Once you see the grid, you just know and back away.. To move around in VR outside of the room we have, we use teleportation, edge-grab, swing-arm locomotion, and many methods, some not even discovered yet, to move around in the VR world. We use both real world walking within our room and artificial locomotion.

3. Google Daydream and GearVR is basically using the phone's hardware and screen to make a VR experience. While it works, it's like comparing a mobile Angry Birds game to DOOM 2016 on PC. Completely different expectations and no, phone based VR is not going to do Vive/Rift VR anytime soon. There's basically no freaking GTX 970 in a phone SOC yet.
     
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post #888 of 2138
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoBodi View Post

1. Sigh, long rant, no, the exclusives on console vs exclusives on Rift is NOT the same thing and why it should be shot down.

The reason consoles get away with it is because that's their ecosystem, completely self-contained, the Sony/Microsoft invested in their own universe and are free to do that, as hated as it is. But THEY, alone control that ecosystem, from the hardware, OS, everything.

The Oculus Rift's exclusives is not the same thing. Oculus doesn't control the hardware or the OS, all they have is basically a glorified monitor on a head and a storefront, making VR Headsets a PERIPHERAL. When was the last time you had a Asus Monitor that only plays Battlefield 1 and doesn't play on say, a Dell monitor?

They are trying to set a closed garden without even controlling the entire ecosystem's OS or hardware at all, leeching off of our individual hardware and Windows 10 to do so.

That is the difference, and that is why so many people are railing against it. It sets an extremely dangerous precedent. It's a dark future for PC if Facebook/Oculus gets their way.
And admit it, exclusives suck, they're the only reason the consoles have any selling point. Not saying the exclusive game sucks, but the fact that they're EXCLUSIVE is what sucks. Yes, I would love to play the new God of War on my PC, but no, I can't, Sony restricts it to PS4 and I basically have to pay $300 and the game.

Now imagine that, but for a glorified monitor. At least Sony controls their ecosystem top to bottom. Oculus does not, and they don't have the same advantage that the console makers do.


Thanks for the reply. But say you're in a game, and you need to walk down a long hallway. Obviously a lot longer, than you've got room in your VR room that you have set up. How does it deal with that.

Back to the rant: I really don't see how its a problem. They're in a world of competition, they're not going to be able to break out of that. I get people being against walled gardens, but look at it like this. Say sony pays sony's money to develop a game for the sony playstation. You can't say word one about it. Its their money, they can spend it how they choose. They can donate it all to charity instead of making a game. Anyone who cries about not being able to play the new Zelda on their PC, is just a poor broke @$$ who can't afford a nintendo. Too bad, cry me a river.

Now, I know that is different from say Asus paying a dev to make a game that only plays on an Asus monitor. I'd like to see them pull that off, but hey that's a different conversation. But either way, that's between Asus, and that dev. Does asus have the money? Does the dev want the money? Yes? Its called a business transaction. Again, its not magic happy fairy land. Now, on the flipside of that, I don't have an asus monitor so Asus just lost a customer. They just lost a LOT of them. A shedload of them. So that's their choice, if they want to be that way. Who exactly are you, or anyone, to tell these companies what to do? Telling them they can't make deals with each other to benefit themselves. As long as they stay within the boundaries of the law, its all fair game. I don't begrudge them that, because unlike some people I don't think I'm somehow entitled to tell them how to do business. If I really wanted to play that Asus game, I'd buy an Asus monitor. Then I'd promptly sell it once I was done.

I really want to play bloodborne, but I don't own a PS4. That particular game, may just talk me into buying one. Its not the end of the world. I'm sure that there will be more PS4 only games that I'd like to play. It probably sounds like I'm defending them, but I'm really just saying its their money, and just like you, they should be able to do whatever they want with it. (inside the boundaries of the law)

So just because its not a standalone system, somehow this makes it wrong for it to have its own games? A very weak (and seemingly crybabyish) argument. It still shares plenty in common with nintendo or sony or whoever. Its still a platform, paid for with good green money, by a company that wants to sell a product to anyone who might be interested in owning one. If I don't like that, maybe they lose a customer and I buy a vive instead. Or I wait a few years, and neither one of them EVER get any money from me. That walled garden is exactly that. It works both ways. It will keep some people in, and other potential customers out.
Edited by PhotonFanatic - 6/19/16 at 2:27am
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post #889 of 2138
Not when you're talking about Giant Cop.

Giant Cop was a VR game on the HTC Vive that was already made, Youtubers played it on the Vive.

Then Oculus bought them off for time exclusivity. Notice that Oculus did not fund the game, they simply threw money at them, and the dev unfortunately took the deal.

This was a crap move considering that there were Humble Bundle preorders for the Vive version, and now the Dev is basically saying "Nah, we don't want your Vive customer money,
Facebook paid us enough!" and now Humble Bundle had to refund those specific preorders.


Serious Sam's dev faced the same deal with Oculus, but to their credit they declined the deal as it's better for all HMD headsets to enjoy a game rather than limit it to one HMD. STILL a peripheral, mind you.

Long hallway in VR? like i said, several locomotion options, like this for example:

Edited by ChronoBodi - 6/19/16 at 2:29am
     
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post #890 of 2138
Still a platform, mind you. Its a new big thing being launched. My mouse has logitch driver software. That won't run on any other mouse! Oh noes!! Its a peripheral!!

They refunded the money? Sounds legit. Its not like they kept it lol. Businesses change their minds and their direction all the time. So back in the day, all the sega owners who really wanted to play super mario brothers should have complained? But but nintendo had a walled garden! How dare they create that!?

I wouldn't even call it shady business practice. I really can't see how "its a peripheral" even applies. Its a new platform, is it not? It needs exclusives. They help out a lot. Do you people actually want to see this thing succeed? Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. But they have every right to make choices and spend money in the manner that they feel gives it the best chance. Its their company, not the whiners who... from what I can tell, seemingly can't even afford the thing in the first place. Otherwise why would they even care? At this point we're all aware, that you've got to pay to play. We put together these big expensive PC's and nobody complains about that.
Edited by PhotonFanatic - 6/19/16 at 2:40am
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Bang for the buck
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3570k @ 4.6Ghz @1.35v Gigabyte Z77x UD3H evga GTX 970 SSC 16Gb Gskill Ripjaws 2133Mhz @ 9-11-10-28 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung Evo 850 Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme Windows 10 Spy Delux Xstar 27" PLS 1440p 
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Wireless ergonomic Silverstone 900 watt Silverstone Raven (1st edition) Logisys Wireless trackball 
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