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G-SYNC or ULMB? - Page 5

Poll Results: Which do you use in games?

 
  • 61% (32)
    G-SYNC always
  • 9% (5)
    ULMB always
  • 28% (15)
    Both depending on the game
52 Total Votes  
post #41 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nukemaster View Post

BenQ Blur reduction has more artifacts than lightboost, but it does not change color like lightboost.
It may be the same for ULMB.

Backlight strobing is still one of those features I love. As long as your frame rates are steady it looks great(and with high refresh rates the flicker should not be an issue.).

What kind of artifacts? ULMB has minimal impact on color and the only artifacts would be the ghosting that comes from strobe crosstalk, but if you run ULMB at 120 Hz and keep 120 FPS then the crosstalk is basically non-existent in the middle and top of the screen and rather minor toward the bottom.
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post #42 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chargeit View Post

I paid the money I did for my monitor because of Gsync. If it could use both I'd check out ULMB. I have messed around with ULMB on my non-Gsync BenQ and couldn't get over how dark the screen was. Also, flickering starts making me dizzy after awhile.

Using a custom increased vertical timing allows to notch up brightness on some of the BenQ models in Blur Reduction mode.

Using longer persistence also increses brightness. (2.5ms persistence, 125hz@1500vt is plenty bright on the xl2411z. requires removing the dvi pixel clock limit as well, though... But way brighter than 2.5ms default 144hz. I'm happy with that, too though.)

It's definitely not hassle free to optimize these things! Unfortunately. For Benq+AMD, it's pretty much mandatory to get used to Blur Busters Strobe Utility, and ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility, to get the most out of your monitor. (And Pixel Clock Patcher helps for stretching the timings for more brightness/less cross talk on some models.) To be fair, 144hz works pretty ok out of the box.

Here's hoping for future models to continue improving. Who wouldn't want some good stable vsync'd Vulkan/Dx12 gaming on a 200hz monitor with an all around functional Blur Reduction implimentation! One can dream. thumb.gif
Edited by Tivan - 1/27/16 at 8:31am
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post #43 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chargeit View Post

I paid the money I did for my monitor because of Gsync. If it could use both I'd check out ULMB. I have messed around with ULMB Lightboost on my non-Gsync BenQ and couldn't get over how dark the screen was. Also, flickering starts making me dizzy after awhile.

Um, increase the brightness setting when using ULMB? Not sure how it is with other monitors but with my Acer it will automatically change monitor settings when I change modes so I can just set it once to have one brightness setting for G-Sync and another, higher, setting for ULMB mode and the picture ends up looking the same as I switch back and forth. I also don't notice any flickering at high FPS. Changing the strobe length would probably help as well (though I'm sure a lot of it does vary from person to person).

Almost everyone paid a higher price because we wanted G-Sync, because all the hype and all the reviews were telling us it was revolutionary and we could never go back. I was slightly underwhelmed. Not worth the premium, IMO. I was using a non-G-Sync 144hz monitor with the Lightboost hack for a long time before my current G-Sync monitor and I found myself more impressed with how much better ULMB looks and works over Lightboost than with G-Sync. Still happy to have G-Sync and I use a combination of the two but I find it strange that NVIDIA pushes G-Sync and barely mentions ULMB, I guess because G-Sync is newer.
post #44 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by madpossum View Post

I find it strange that NVIDIA pushes G-Sync and barely mentions ULMB, I guess because G-Sync is newer.

I feel like there's still some sentiment with regard to CRT, along those lines: Flickering=CRT=Headaches=Sitting in dimly lit rooms while gaming

Think of the backlash people got for saying CRT is better than LCD. (in those select qualities; of course the argumentative lines always blur on the internet.)

Also, being very demanding on hardware (for a really smooth experience), it's a lot more niche. Or as a feature for the 'competitive gaming crowd', also pretty niche.

G-Sync can give about everyone a better gaming experience. (with the caveat that it's inferior to ULMB in those edge cases, but we don't want to overly mention that.)

Edit: They sell it as a niche feature for a niche crowd to not alienate parts of the much broader G-Sync audience. Here's where VR has potential to do much more for Blur Reduction, in the long run. (Of course that's highly hypothetical, as long as we don't know how popular that's gonna be.)

I'm just glad it's much more of a thing now, than it was 5 years ago. thumb.gif (Plus, as far as I'm concerned, it really enables VR to be a compelling thing. I couldn't imagine playing a VR game and the effective resolution drops to sub 100p, while doing rapid motions. THAT sounds nauseating.)
Edited by Tivan - 1/27/16 at 8:52am
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post #45 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tivan View Post

I feel like there's still some sentiment with regard to CRT, along those lines: Flickering=CRT=Headaches=Sitting in dimly lit rooms while gaming

Think of the backlash people got for saying CRT is better than LCD. (in those select qualities)

Also, being very demanding on hardware (for a really smooth experience), it's a lot more niche. Or as a feature for the 'competitive gaming crowd', also pretty niche.

G-Sync can give about everyone a better gaming experience. (with the caveat that it's inferior to ULMB in those edge cases, but we don't want to overly mention that.)

Good points, it also seems that most people crank all of their games to max settings all the time and thus even those with high end hardware end up playing most games more in the 40-70 FPS range where G-Sync would be the best option. I've always been a frames junky and will always spend a long time fiddling with game settings trying to get the most FPS while retaining good IQ. I was always looking to run games at 120fps+ if possible. G-Sync is more impressive to the "60fps is good enough" crowd.
post #46 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by madpossum View Post

Good points, it also seems that most people crank all of their games to max settings all the time and thus even those with high end hardware end up playing most games more in the 40-70 FPS range where G-Sync would be the best option. I've always been a frames junky and will always spend a long time fiddling with game settings trying to get the most FPS while retaining good IQ. I was always looking to run games at 120fps+ if possible. G-Sync is more impressive to the "60fps is good enough" crowd.

For sure. As much as I love 120 FPS ULMB, I generally prioritize graphics. Aliasing is one of my pet peeves and I'm often using supersampling which can make me say goodbye to 120 FPS in games where I could normally get such high FPS if I didn't force supersampling (e.g., Dragon Age: Origins in which I force 4x FSSGSSAA). However if there are graphics options that make only a very subtle visual difference, I'd disable them if they'd get me that magic 120 FPS.
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post #47 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredgunner View Post

What kind of artifacts? ULMB has minimal impact on color and the only artifacts would be the ghosting that comes from strobe crosstalk, but if you run ULMB at 120 Hz and keep 120 FPS then the crosstalk is basically non-existent in the middle and top of the screen and rather minor toward the bottom.
Cross-talk is exactly the artifact I can talking about. Lightboost has much less than BenQ Blur Reduction.
I would guess ULMB is similar since it is an upgraded version of Lightboost.

For BenQ VT tricks and service menu edits can move it down off the bottom under some refresh rates, but lightboost is just simply better in this respect(minus the shutter glasses optimized color change).

I am not bad mouthing it(BenQ's implementation. It still works very well and as long as you do not have the early firmware is adjustable) as such, it is kind of distracting in some games to see double (then again overdrive artifacts[inverted ghosting] are also distracting and yet more common today than 8 years ago).

Also it goes without saying that your frames have to match your refresh for this feature to work best.
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post #48 of 80
Although this topic seems inactive since a while, i didn't want to start a new one and this threat fits like glove.


I have tested/compared ulmb to freesync.

I know there are several people that are really enthusiastic, i just want to state my subjective view about ULMB here and that after a lot of testing i have to admit that i am not that excited about it..

Lets assume that we have a panel with decently fast pixel transitions (slow tansitions cause some form of blur too and can be hidden to some degree by strobing) because i don't want to write about them.

So lets say:

The amount of sample/hold eye tracking blur depends much on how fast the object you are focusing moves on the screen in addition to the persistance of each frame on the screen.
So if a object you focus moves at lets say 1000pixel/sec and you run a refresh rate of 100hz =10ms persistance each frame, that would equal about 10 pixel of eye tracking blur that can be reduced by enabling ULMB: (Of course how noticeable 10pixel are depends very much on the ppi of your monitor, your sitting distance and your eyevision, but lets leave that aside too)

My observations in different games were that it really didn't matter, because i couldn't find a game where i actually focus on very fast moving objects in a regular manner on the screen.

In many games, even the fps games i tested, the actual objects/players i focus on don't move that fast at all (therefor the amount of blur that gets introduced is also much smaller along with the benefit of ULMB). (my point is. even in those fast fps games, i need to find/spot my target, which often involves very fast flicking, when they are visible and i start tracking them they don't actually move that fast)

Yes one can flick the mouse very fast to turn the vision, for example if you want to turn your character really fast in a game because you want to see whats behind you, but you are actually not focusing with your eyes on the fast moving background at all, so the benefit of ULMB (having a sharp background if you were focussing at a certain object) is rather useless to me in this regard.

Also, by removing the blur you are introducing a kind of stroboscopic effect, because there are obviously gaps during the frames, usually they are filled/masked by the blur. For example you take 100 fps at 100hz normal LCD sample/hold. At about 1000pixel/sec the motion/transitions looks smooth to me, if i enable strobing i can slightly see the stroboscopic effect.

At 100fps =10ms steps, at 1000pixel/sec that equals 10pixel step per frame.

So if i really want the strobing motion to be fluid i not only need the fps to match the hz of the monitor but the fps also needs to be very high too so that the now visible gaps are as small as possible.


Obviously, if i had a very high refresh rate monitor with ulmb and the power ($$$) to run those fps at a matching rate i would gladly use them but as i wrote earlier, first and foremost the amount of blur introduced depends very much on how fast the object you are tracking actually moves.

After all, i really couldn't find a game where i track very fast moving objects on a regular basis, i came to the conclusion that this kind of motion blur (caused by high persistance and eyetracking ) is actually sort of a non issue for me after all.

TLDR: i prefer freesync/gsync over ULMB because the blur is not really an issue for me and because the hardware needed to run this is too expensive for me


So what do you think, is ULMB overrated or am i just writing nonsense or ... ? rolleyes.gif
Edited by aliquis - 11/13/16 at 3:17pm
post #49 of 80
Thread Starter 
Being able to track fast objects is just one benefit. Objects do not need to be moving fast for there to be annoying unrealistic motion blur across the entire screen and everything that moves, especially on IPS and VA monitors (but TN as well) and blur reduction gets rid of that. Focus too much on moving objects without it and headaches can get induced (hence why strobing is a must for VR but the effect can happen outside it).

Everyone is on board with VRR over blur reduction so I'd say blur reduction is underrated and VRR is overrated. High refresh rate/frame rate is indeed needed thus lots of power (how much depends on resolution). Under ideal circumstances like 120 Hz/120 FPS ULMB, moving images (gaming) looks so much more real.

So much ULMB gaming has spoiled me and I can hardly tolerate any amount of motion blur now. Even the motion blur my XB270HU produces at 144 Hz/144 FPS with normal overdrive, which is a relatively low amount compared to other monitors.
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post #50 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Scotch View Post

Why use vsync and not simply cap max frames at120.

Tearing...stutter
Computer
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500K / 4.5Ghz / 1.368v / 212 EVO+ ASUS P8Z77-V LK EVGA Geforce GTX 680 / 2GB / 1228MHz / 3479MHz Kingston HyperX Blu Black / 1600Mhz / 8GB (2x4GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOS
OCZ Vertex 4 / SSD / 128GB Seagate ST500413AS / HDD / SATA / 500GB Seagate ST1000DM003 / HDD / SATA / 1000GB Windows 8.1 Pro / 64Bit / Full 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Samsung S23A700D / 120Hz / 23" Dell 2312HM / IPS / 23" LG IPS231 / IPS / 23" CMStorm Quick Fire Rapid 
PowerMouseMouse PadAudio
Seasonic X760 / 80 Plus Gold Zowie AM SteelSeries NP+ M-Audio Q40 with Beyerdynamic EDT 770 VB pads ... 
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Computer
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500K / 4.5Ghz / 1.368v / 212 EVO+ ASUS P8Z77-V LK EVGA Geforce GTX 680 / 2GB / 1228MHz / 3479MHz Kingston HyperX Blu Black / 1600Mhz / 8GB (2x4GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOS
OCZ Vertex 4 / SSD / 128GB Seagate ST500413AS / HDD / SATA / 500GB Seagate ST1000DM003 / HDD / SATA / 1000GB Windows 8.1 Pro / 64Bit / Full 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Samsung S23A700D / 120Hz / 23" Dell 2312HM / IPS / 23" LG IPS231 / IPS / 23" CMStorm Quick Fire Rapid 
PowerMouseMouse PadAudio
Seasonic X760 / 80 Plus Gold Zowie AM SteelSeries NP+ M-Audio Q40 with Beyerdynamic EDT 770 VB pads ... 
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Reply
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Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Monitors and Displays › G-SYNC or ULMB?