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Need CPU for 3d modeling/rendering purposes (3DS max, Archicad etc.) - Page 2

post #11 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeyore888 View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

If the cheaper hex core is the 5820k, then yeah, lanes don't matter for rendering. However, if you we are suggesting a cheaper choice like the E5-2603 v3, then that would not be optimal. It has a sweet price point at $220, but it is not hyperthreaded. A pair of them would be neat to see in a dual CPU board since they're so cheap!

All things considered, the 5820k is a sweet little processor!

Yes you're right. My 5960 is a bit of overkill unless I have a render farm, as is the 2690 V3.

The lanes only matter for multi GPUs as I understand and they only work with full screens, unless they're quadro or firepro cards.

I sometimes use the X58 xeons for my poor student builds in CAD. They are 6 core, unlocked and great to overclock and if you can find a motherboard the cpus are super cheap. 5690 was very nice.
post #12 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfinchina View Post

I've done a few builds for Archicad work.
The rendering is done in CPU as the above poster pointed out thumb.gif The best one at the best price is really something like a pulled (from workstation) xeon 2690 - 12 cores for under 500 USD on ebay - core numbers trump core speed every time. Minimum would be 6, 8 is ok and 12 is excellent!
X99 is really the only choice for expanding it later and the Asus cheapest one is fine.

For GPU megabytes is important for moving around the model if it's big - the number of triangles you can fit into GPU before it dumps into normal memory is critical.
I have an R9 390 with 8Gb mem and an R9 nano with 4gb. The nano goes way faster until I get to a big building, then the 390x trumps it. So it really depends on the size of your models.

I have one workstation with an M.2 drive and another with an SSD. Honestly I can't tell the difference in CAD. Hard drives however are pointless, so go with the biggest SSD you can afford and use it with cache enabled.
I use 1/2 terabyte then shift my non current projects to NAS. You need to factor in something like a WD mycloud.
Get 32Gb memory if you run multiple instances otherwise 16 is enough as the above poster pointed out thumb.gif again.

Get the best cooler you can afford. Custom watercooling is best but it's like a beautiful woman - high maintenance. A Noctua D15 is the next best choice. Don't use a crap cooler whatever you do. Use a case that can fit eatx and have good fans - Noctua pumps the air and are quiet. They just look bad. I've gone back to them after trying just about every other one.

I hope this helps you and maybe other CAD people smile.gif
cheers from down under.
Pete

Wow! Thank you for such a detailed answer. First, something I forgot to mention... the CPU needs to be NEW, so secondhand CPUs are out of question here. If it was my computer, I'd take secondhand xeon, but since Im building a PC for my sister, she wants new components (because of warranty etc).
I simply chose i7-4790k because people suggested it on other forums. New Xeons are quite expensive, so they're waaay out of my budget. I did find few Xeons for 300-400€ but I have no clue how they deal with rendering tasks compared to i7-4790k. Of course, if you know about Xeons that get the work done faster, please, I'd love to hear your suggestions. (You know... Time is money for architects, right wink.gif?)

As far as I know, she does visualizations of interior design mostly, not so much huge buildings. She does some houses as well, but I guess normal family size house doesnt count as a "huge models" tongue.gif I was told R9 280x would get the job done as well (I'd simply give her my R9 280x and buy myself something better), but I really don't know how much the GPU makes a difference when rendering. She also expressed the wish, she'd like the colors on screen to match the colors "on paper". (I assume this has more to do with LCD screen itself, than gpu card).

Regarding SSD, I was thinking of getting her SSD of 256GB, for installing all of her software she uses for rendering, and HDD for storing the projects. For now I'll just stay on 256 one, if she needs more, she can buy another eventually.

Definitely getting either Noctua D15 or evo 212 (they say it's damn good cooler). Water cooling is just too expensive, I'd rather spend money on more powerful components.

Would you have any CPU in mind (possibly XEON) in 300-400€ price range, that would be good for these tasks? (better than i7 4790k)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeyore888 View Post

X99 is the platform you'll want to stick with for anything CAD or rendering related.

You can snag a Xeon E5-2620 v3 off newegg for $430 USD. It's a 6 core 12 thread. Should be plenty powerful. Stay away from the Z chipset series for heavy computing.

The 5820k is also a fine choice. The toss up between that and the 5930k shouldn't matter too much.

The CPU you mentioned (E5-2620v3) costs 459€ (514 USD), so it's a bit above my budget. I was thinking more inside the 300-400€ range.

Also, why should I stay away from Z chipset? I chose Z chipset so I could overclock the i7 if needed. (Of course, if I choose to buy i7 4790k that is)
post #13 of 32
The Z series is just not suited to rendering tasks. You will always be limited to 4 cores and 8 threads. For a little bit more money, you can buy a 6 core 12 thread that was designed for heavy computations. Even cheap 6 core Xeons like the E5-2609 v3 will be better than the 4790k. Even though it's 6 core with no hyperthreading, those two extra physical cores give it an edge that logical cores cannot compete against. You can still overclock these Xeon chips if memory serves, but it's going to be limited to a few hundred MHz... Honestly, once you have the chip, you aren't going to see a need for OCing. I highly suggest the Xeon.

As for GPU, a mid workstation card typically renders better than a higher end gaming card. Their architecture is completely different. If your sister does intense 3D modeling, then I would just buy a cheaper medium range Quadro card.

Colors matching real life is a display panel topic. You're going to want to look at an IPS panel. Asus makes some beautiful panels.
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Little Green
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post #14 of 32
As far as I know, she does visualizations of interior design mostly, not so much huge buildings. She does some houses as well, but I guess normal family size house doesnt count as a "huge models" tongue.gif I was told R9 280x would get the job done as well (I'd simply give her my R9 280x and buy myself something better), but I really don't know how much the GPU makes a difference when rendering. She also expressed the wish, she'd like the colors on screen to match the colors "on paper". (I assume this has more to do with LCD screen itself, than gpu card).

Regarding SSD, I was thinking of getting her SSD of 256GB, for installing all of her software she uses for rendering, and HDD for storing the projects. For now I'll just stay on 256 one, if she needs more, she can buy another eventually.

Definitely getting either Noctua D15 or evo 212 (they say it's damn good cooler). Water cooling is just too expensive, I'd rather spend money on more powerful components.

Would you have any CPU in mind (possibly XEON) in 300-400€ price range, that would be good for these tasks? (better than i7 4790k)
The CPU you mentioned (E5-2620v3) costs 459€ (514 USD), so it's a bit above my budget. I was thinking more inside the 300-400€ range.

Also, why should I stay away from Z chipset? I chose Z chipset so I could overclock the i7 if needed. (Of course, if I choose to buy i7 4790k that is)[/quote]

I'm glad to help smile.gif

Last year I had to revert to a 4 core (920) for a couple of months because I fried the xeon 5690 (overclocking and a pump malfunction). It was horrible, so I've got a bit of a thing about 4 cores and design now tongue.gif
So I would go for the 5820. It's a great chip and the X99 mobo gives her the choice of a decent upgrade if she wants it later.
256GB SSD is ok as long as she's a bit disciplined about file management.

I have the Dell U3415W screen and the color is really good. About the best I can get without shelling out big bucks on a pro screen and all the reviews say that too.
It has backlight bleed at the corners but I can only see it if I watch a movie at night and am looking for it.
Real estate is quite important for design to fit all the tools beside the model so 3440x1440 is perfect.
My other computer has a Dell 27 high res and a crappy 24" for the tools and that's ok too.

Actually for interior design the screen would be the number one priority before rendering speed.

Remember when we're talking 4 cores vs 12 cores the reality is a 7 minute render vs a 5 minute render. Render anything bigger and you have to go for a walk with either chip.
To be able to see how colors go together and see them as they would be in reality is really crucial.

If you have any money left over a nice gaming mouse is good - a few macros for common tasks and accurate movement around the screen, with adjustable resolution. Wired is good.
Because I'm excessive I also have a corsair K95 gaming keyboard with a bank of macros on the left side and cherry keys haha.

Finally (sorry, I talk too much)
I had an old R9 280x last year and it was really good. 3GB is fine for a normal residential size house.
post #15 of 32
You can look for server boards for socket 1366. I have a Dell power edge T410 that is great for that kind of stuff. It's dual socket and currently configured with two Xeon X5650 (2.66 GHz 6 core 12 thread each so a total of 24 threads). The great thing about these is they are still pretty cheap. They are about 90 bucks on ebay each. I'm not sure what boards are going for but they use DDR3 as well so you won't have to buy DDR4.
post #16 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfinchina View Post

I'm glad to help smile.gif

Last year I had to revert to a 4 core (920) for a couple of months because I fried the xeon 5690 (overclocking and a pump malfunction). It was horrible, so I've got a bit of a thing about 4 cores and design now tongue.gif
So I would go for the 5820. It's a great chip and the X99 mobo gives her the choice of a decent upgrade if she wants it later.
256GB SSD is ok as long as she's a bit disciplined about file management.

I have the Dell U3415W screen and the color is really good. About the best I can get without shelling out big bucks on a pro screen and all the reviews say that too.
It has backlight bleed at the corners but I can only see it if I watch a movie at night and am looking for it.
Real estate is quite important for design to fit all the tools beside the model so 3440x1440 is perfect.
My other computer has a Dell 27 high res and a crappy 24" for the tools and that's ok too.

Actually for interior design the screen would be the number one priority before rendering speed.

Remember when we're talking 4 cores vs 12 cores the reality is a 7 minute render vs a 5 minute render. Render anything bigger and you have to go for a walk with either chip.
To be able to see how colors go together and see them as they would be in reality is really crucial.

If you have any money left over a nice gaming mouse is good - a few macros for common tasks and accurate movement around the screen, with adjustable resolution. Wired is good.
Because I'm excessive I also have a corsair K95 gaming keyboard with a bank of macros on the left side and cherry keys haha.

Finally (sorry, I talk too much)
I had an old R9 280x last year and it was really good. 3GB is fine for a normal residential size house.

The thing is... If I go for 5820k and the CHEAPEST X99 motherboard, that alone costs over 650€ here ( 430€ for 5280k and at least 220€ for X99 mobo). That would mean I had to go for 16Gb RAM (instead of originally planned 32Gb), and cut some budget on GPU as well (meaning I can't buy R9 390, and will have to go with a secondhand r9 280x.) If the difference in rendering times is only this little, I don't see the point going for so many cores. I wouldn't pay 100€ more for a CPU that gets the job done 10% faster. She's been using my PC with 4670k cpu and she's quite satisfied with rendering time, so I guess even a CPU like 4970k (not to mention Xeon or 5820k) would be a HUGE upgrade compared to 4670k. She's planning to use 3DS max and VRAY in future as well, so I guess that's even more "resource hungry", that's why Im looking for "best bang for buck".

I agree, colors and different shades are really important, so we will go for quality monitor. Will definitely check the one you suggested! smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by NBrock View Post

You can look for server boards for socket 1366. I have a Dell power edge T410 that is great for that kind of stuff. It's dual socket and currently configured with two Xeon X5650 (2.66 GHz 6 core 12 thread each so a total of 24 threads). The great thing about these is they are still pretty cheap. They are about 90 bucks on ebay each. I'm not sure what boards are going for but they use DDR3 as well so you won't have to buy DDR4.

Will check! Thanks! smile.gif
Edited by Wort - 2/5/16 at 12:50pm
post #17 of 32
Thread Starter 
[
post #18 of 32
If she's satisfied with the 4670k, then I would go with a dual socket motherboard and a SINGLE E5-2603 v3 for $220. In the future, a second chip could be added for 12 physical cores. That single chip, in my opinion, would be better than a 4790k. They're extremely cheap, and powerful. They also only use 85W of power, so no need for a monster supply.

You can snag a relatively cheap dual socket mobo like the Asus Z10PA-D8 for about $400. That board doesn't require anything special. You can plug in normal DDR4 and use a standard ATX power supply.

The GPU is far more powerful than any CPU for rendering purposes, but any mid range GPU will be fine for what you're explaining. The higher the memory on the card the better. Although, a quadro card for about $250 with 4GB of RAM would be leaps and bounds more powerful. The GPU really only comes into play for the 3D.

As for RAM, 16GB will be fine. You don't need extremely high speeds either. A simple 16GB 1866 kit would work well. Since the socket 2011-v3 is quad channel, make sure you get at least 4 sticks to utilize it. You can get a 16GB quad channel kit from G.Skill for about $100.

I've frequently used AutoCAD 2016 on my system (4820k, 16GB dual channel 2133MHz, GTX 970) and it is stupidly overpowered compared to my schools systems (4770, 32GB, Quadro K600).

Go for the E5-2603 v3, dual socket motherboard, 16GB quad kit and reuse the 280X. If you have extra cash, pick a second processor.

FYI: The X79 and X99 processors are Xeon cores. They are all made on the same wafer.
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Little Green
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post #19 of 32
Hi, just to clear things up,
The GPU doesn't get used at all for rendering in Archicad or 3ds max, only for moving around in the model. CPU gets used for rendering.
Autocad uses the least resources of any of the CAD programs because it's the least powerful and nobody really uses it now unless they only need to draw lines. It's not really a modelling program so would make any computer look good.
post #20 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfinchina View Post

Hi, just to clear things up,
The GPU doesn't get used at all for rendering in Archicad or 3ds max, only for moving around in the model. CPU gets used for rendering.
Autocad uses the least resources of any of the CAD programs because it's the least powerful and nobody really uses it now unless they only need to draw lines. It's not really a modelling program so would make any computer look good.

Considering everything you guys told me, and given the fact you have some experience in archicad related work, I think I'm going with 5820k and x99 motherboard.

So to sum it up:
CPU: 5820k
Motherboard: X99 (I'd take the cheapest one)
RAM: 16Gb DDR3 (can still upgrade it if I find the need for more) ACTUALLY: I've read x99 motherboard with 5820k only support DDR4 RAM, is that true?
GPU: Secondhand R9 280x (I can still buy r9 390x later)
+ the rest of the components

Would you agree with the build above? Also, I hope R9 280x can deal with V-RAY.
Edited by Wort - 2/7/16 at 6:08am
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