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[TT] NVIDIA should launch its next-gen Pascal GPUs with HBM2 in 2H 2016 - Page 27

post #261 of 724
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

i stand corrected. the 2 years is the 780.

thank you sir. thumb.gif

but obviously i have a hard time with this . . . "driver fate" stuff.

i remember similar with fermi - kepler; it wasn't optimizations but OCing fermi was kibosh for awhile. then that "killer" driver came out when NV lifted that. tongue.gif

The problem is not localized to just the 780, the whole GK110 stack suffered the same driver unoptimization fate as the 780, as soo as Maxwell dropped... Lol And, crim is absolutely right about his timeline and the limited period optimization support for GK110 cards, despite the fact these cards cost between $800 -$1000 at least my 780 Ti KPE was in the $800 range, if I recall correctly (don't think Nvidia had the nerve to charge those prices for fermi and provide limited driver optimization support). Sure, as more time passes, one can argue about two years now ( time does heal some wounds theory... Lol), however this issue started as soon as Maxwell was released. Even Nvidia would admit that it has moved to focus on driver optimizations for Maxwell and doesn't have any incentive to allocate resources towards GK110. I understand my 690 getting sub optimized driver support, but dropping the GK110 was clearly designed to "induce" and an upgrade cycle by all on the samd 28nm node
(And, I get the business rationale behind it) but I am not going to put myself in the same position by buying a Nvidia card again, that's all...lol
Edited by provost - 2/9/16 at 9:09am
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post #262 of 724
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopicClocker View Post

That 780 Ti is a Matrix Platinum model, which has a clock-speed of 1050MHz and happens to be around 10% faster than the stock model.
This is a pretty solid overclock out of the box.

Just thought I'd add to it, I don't know what to think of the supposed "gimping" of Kepler.

and that 970 strix is pretty juiced up also. i'm looking to see where anyone noticed how that 780ti holds its own and even keeps up w/980 depending on the scene thumb.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by provost View Post

The problem is not localized to just the 780, the whole GK110 stack suffered the same driver unoptimization fate as the 780, as soo as Maxwell dropped... Lol And, crim is absolutely right about his timeline and the limited period optimization support for GK110 cards, despite the fact these cards cost between $800 -$1000 at least my 780 Ti KPE was in the $800 range, if I recall correctly (don't think Nvidia had the nerve to charge those prices for fermi and provide limited driver optimization support). Even Nvidia would admit that it has moved to focus on driver optimizations for Maxwell and doesn't have any incentive to allocate resources towards GK110. I understand my 690 getting sub optimized driver support, but dropping the GK110 was clearly designed to "induce" and upgrade cycle (And, I get the business rationale behind it) but I am not going to put myself in the same position by buying a Nvidia card again, that's all...lol

so let me get this straight:

you can forgive NV for not looking at a 690 but think it wrong to overlook driver optimizations for the 780(ti)?

and you don't think that's an oxymoron? you know because their they're both kepler chips?

and lets be concise; unoptimized is NOT the same as not optimized as well as maxwell.

E:
grammar nazi tongue.gif
Edited by looniam - 2/9/16 at 9:28am
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post #263 of 724
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

now now now folks only see what they think/want they should:

The amount of ram being used by each gpu is very interesting.

Must be some sort of bug in the monitoring software.
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post #264 of 724
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerPowered View Post

Rise of the Tomb Raider
Nvida Cards have the same Snow in the hair. Its called Hairworks on Nvidia. Nvidia cards also get more FPS with it on than AMD cards.
I'm not seeing it. What is it called? Source is @looniam, kindly cited.
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post #265 of 724
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

and that 970 strix is pretty juiced up also. i'm looking to see where anyone noticed how that 780ti holds its own and even keeps up w/980 depending on the scene thumb.gif
so let me get this straight:

you can forgive NV for not looking at a 690 but think it wrong to overlook driver optimizations for the 780(ti)?

and you don't think that's an oxymoron? you know because their they're both kepler chips?

and lets be concise; unoptimized is NOT the same as not optimized as well as maxwell.

E:
grammar nazi tongue.gif

Yeah, well posting on the go from my mobile, so it happens... Lol
Yes, the issue here is the time period that Nvidia is prepared to support optimization support for its cards after release, not this arch or that arch; it's not like Nvidia is transparent about the timing of its cards and arch releases. I bought the 690s ( only have one now) in 2012, so if Nvidia wants move on with optimization in what was it, Sep or oct 2014, at least I got some optimization support (still expensive at $1k a pop per card !) . But, 780 Ti KPE was released in Dec 2013 and merely received less than 9 months of optimization support, and similarly the Titans at $1k a pop received little over a year. Not to mention the poor saps who bought Titan blacks in Feb 2014 at release and others who bought Titan ZS in May 2014 or thereabouts at release.
It was calssic churn and burn sales tactic to goose the quarterly numbers, as we call it in business. But, Nvidia should have expected a fallout, and it was probably within their range "acceptable damage", based on dollars and cents, and that's just how the game is played; you use any leverage you have to maximize the bottom line". In this case, the leverage Nvidia used against its own customers was the lack of competing offering fro
AMD at the time, and I am pretty sure Nvidia will do it again as it paid off financially. However, this churn and burn only works for so long, and so called PC gamer hobbyists have long memories, well at least some of them.... Lol
So, that guy I quoted (who quoted someone else , I know. tongue.gif) on the GeForce forums was as unfiltered and sincere a post that I could find (on my mobile tongue.gif) that it almost came across as an appeal to Nvidia rather than diatribe (kind a pathetic too, given it accomplished absolutely nothing..lol)

Edit: By the way, I do remember one post by you (it kinda stuck with me, in retrospect) that was followed by lachen.gif a few months before Maxwell was officially released and it went something like this; a $200 card will mop the floor with $1000 Titan Black lachen.gif I can only assume that was referring to the 960 or something, and indeed that was the case before all hell broke lose when the Kepler owners went nuts after w3 was released with something like 64 X unnecessary tesselation.... Lol
Edited by provost - 2/9/16 at 10:38am
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post #266 of 724
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post


The amount of ram being used by each gpu is very interesting.

Must be some sort of bug in the monitoring software.

i don't know about a bug since ive seen a few game performance reviews saying/claiming that though RotTR likes 6gbs it run just fine with less; it takes whatever it gets.
Quote:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Yeah, well posting on the go from my mobile, so it happens... Lol
Yes, the issue here is the time period that Nvidia is prepared to support optimization support for its cards after release, not this arch or that arch; it's not like Nvidia is transparent about the timing of its cards and arch releases. I bought the 690s ( only have one now) in 2012, so if Nvidia wants move on with optimization in what was it, Sep or oct 2014, at least I got some optimization support (still expensive at $1k a pop per card !) . But, 780 Ti KPE was released in Dec 2013 and merely received less than 9 months of optimization support, and similarly the Titans at $1k a pop received little over a year. Not to mention the poor saps who bought Titan blacks in Feb 2014 at release and others who bought Titan ZS in May 2014 or thereabouts at release.
It was calssic churn and burn sales tactic to goose the quarterly numbers, as we call it in business. But, Nvidia should have expected a fallout, and it was probably within their range "acceptable damage", based on dollars and cents, and that's just how the game is played; you use any leverage you have to maximize the bottom line". In this case, the leverage Nvidia used against its own customers was the lack of competing offering fro
AMD at the time, and I am pretty sure Nvidia will do it again as it paid off financially. However, this churn and burn only works for so long, and so called PC gamer hobbyists have long memories, well at least some of them.... Lol
So, that guy I quoted (who quoted someone else , I know. tongue.gif) on the GeForce forums was as unfiltered and sincere a post that I could find (on my mobile tongue.gif) that it almost came across as an appeal to Nvidia rather than diatribe (kind a pathetic too, given it accomplished absolutely nothing..lol)

sorry but that was a little hard for me to . .make sense out of, no offense. but if it says what i think it does:
i can't understand the philosophy of specific cards getting shafted as GK104 which was released much longer ago is the same arch as GK110. if we revisit history (not revise) GK110 was late to the party with fab problems and by the time it came to market - NV already had OEM professional card orders to fulfill along with gpus for the oakridge super computer.
it was just pure luck AMD needed to do some driver work that GK104 looked so good in the meantime. had they gotten their act together at first like they did when those never settle bundles came out . .oh boy NV would have been SCREWED!

whoa i digress. what i am saying is a kepler is a kepler is a kepler. looking at the last set of releases is being short sighted and completely ignoring the first set.
Quote:
Edit: By the way, I do remember one post by you (it kinda stuck with me, in retrospect) that was followed by lachen.gif a few months before Maxwell was officially released and it went something like this; a $200 card will mop the floor with $1000 Titan Black lachen.gif I can only assume that was referring to the 960 or something, and indeed that was the case before all hell broke lose when the Kepler owners went nuts after w3 was released with something like 64 X unnecessary tesselation.... Lol

i don't believe that was me and i certainly would want to know why i would trade a 980 for a 780ti classy. bought a 780 for $500 two months before maxwell dropped. evga stepped me up for $50 that i traded with munney.

had waaaaayy to much fun OCing that card to regret that. smile.gif

(but then RMA'd it and got a turd mad.gif )
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post #267 of 724
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

i don't know about a bug since ive seen a few game performance reviews saying/claiming that though RotTR likes 6gbs it run just fine with less; it takes whatever it gets.

I'm the bug actually. Looking at the video quick at work and I mistook system ram for vram. Doh. biggrin.gif
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post #268 of 724
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

i'll just leave this here: (for no reason)

Lending Clarity To Confusion: The Truth About Nvidia GameWorks
.
. TL:DR (Click to show)
Conclusion
What did I find out after months of reading code, learning more about GameWorks and playing games? A lot of confusion and mystery around something that’s unbelievably simple – if you accept certain truths as reality. The truth of it is however you want to call it – middleware, toolbox, etc. – GameWorks is a collection of APIs that help people achieve great things with games without investing all of the time into it themselves. Some of it is restricted to NVIDIA – not because of some mysterious reason, because it’s CUDA based. The rest of it is available for use independent of graphics hardware, but it’s up to the developer to decide how that’s best implemented and work through their QA/debugging to tune those issues before it gets to the end user. When that doesn’t happen, and it’s never going to be 100% eliminated, developers have been quick to either debug it or refer it to the graphics manufacturer as a bug in their driver, which then often is corrected in short order.

The other truth of it is that because GameWorks in the middle of the process short of reverse engineering you’re never going to see the whole picture – and I think that’s where the gaming community got it wrong in the Ashes of the Singularity “kerfluffle” over the summer. Much of it was trying to examine it in the middle – but due to the fact that we don’t know all of the interaction and behavior between the layers of a GPU and the driver written for it, there’s still a large gap there. Are we ever going to know all of that? Not entirely; a lot of that is still trade secrets and kept proprietary, though strides are being made in the Linux space to unlock part of that mystery via open source drivers.

It goes back to that saying in programming that the right solution for a problem is one that gets the correct solution at the end; the methodology to get there may be different, but as long as the end result is achieved. My article back in August suggested this might be possible and the benchmark version from October reinforced that. So it cannot be stressed enough – don’t count out someone because solution A didn’t work, especially if there are many other ways to solve it using a different approach. And GameWorks just gives several of those options available to developers for consideration of using in their projects.

If you have a game development project that you’re working on, GameWorks is certainly worth your consideration to see what solutions might be out there for you to implement. Take a good look, try it out and see if they work for you. Reach out to the development community on the NVIDIA forums if you get stuck and see if they can help you. And if you’re using Unreal Engine 4, take a look at the branch that already includes some of these features. For gamers, it’s time to put this axe down and rather than try to attack it, embrace every open tool out there for developers that helps them bring a game to you with lower development time and cost. And if it’s not working right on your system, contact them – send the developers your feedback. But do it productively such as a bug report or e-mail so that it really gets fixed – something that Twitter, Facebook and forum posts will not often get easily identified and corrected. You might just find that with the right information that bug gets squashed and your playing experience is just as good as you expected it to be.

Lol, that article reads as if it was taken directly from the desk of Nvidia marketing. Didn't feel the "need" to talk to AMD about any of this? Eh, that's OK, just post whatever spin Nvidia throws at you and call it "truth"! Thanks but no thanks...
post #269 of 724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klocek001 View Post

cause the only relevant source of information for some amd fans are other amd fans.

And Extremetech, Richard Huddy, and Roy Taylor.
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post #270 of 724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Lol, that article reads as if it was taken directly from the desk of Nvidia marketing. Didn't feel the "need" to talk to AMD about any of this? Eh, that's OK, just post whatever spin Nvidia throws at you and call it "truth"! Thanks but no thanks...

AMD has gone on record several times how they feel about gameworks so there really wouldn't be a point.

if anything they would just tell the guy he couldn't do what he showed what a developer could do. rolleyes.gif

btw, read the article a few times, mind pointing out where that was stated?

TIA.thumb.gif

E: nvermnd found it:
Quote:
Did you talk to AMD or developers about this? No, and here’s the thought process behind that. Did AMD or developers make the APIs? Would you go to Microsoft to ask how Google wrote APIs to tie into Play Services? The only people that are going to be able to explain more about are the people who wrote the code. That’s right, NVIDIA. The rest, short of violating NDAs from their previous employment at NVIDIA or reverse engineering of NVIDIA’s intellectual property, is going to be well-educated guesses and analysis at the contents of the black box.

Edited by looniam - 2/9/16 at 11:12pm
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles › [TT] NVIDIA should launch its next-gen Pascal GPUs with HBM2 in 2H 2016