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[TT] NVIDIA should launch its next-gen Pascal GPUs with HBM2 in 2H 2016 - Page 57

post #561 of 724
Quote:
Originally Posted by prjindigo View Post

REALITY CHECK:

At the time i write this nVidia still does not have a working prototype of any Pascal series chips either in GDDR5/GDDR5X or HBM1. HBM2 is not going to be a release feature component at the start of the line in any form. Additionally at the time that this thread was started, nVidia hadn't even finished lithography at 16nm and someplace between then and now a Magnitude 6.2 earthquake shook the hell out of the TSMC plant.

EVERYTHING in the thread to this point is purest fantasy speculation.

Fifty Six pages of total hogwash and flea dip.

The subject has wandered off and hidden in a cave in Formosa by this point.

We have no actual transistor count for Pascal because they've hit snags in their design and in 16nm lithography that are requiring a re-design of some subcircuits.
You cannot equate changes in lithography nanometer scale with increased density because there are parts of these chips that are STILL up in the 32nm and 45nm range that will never shrink and much of even the GloFo/Samsung 14nm tech is built onto 20nm and 22nm components. Just because a 14nm lithography is used doesn't mean all the components are 14nm - it just isn't true.

Will nV produce a card this year? Yes. Will they release an HBM card first? No. Will AMD release an HBM card first? Possibly! (probably if FuryX2 counts) Will there be HBM2 cards this year? Unlikely.
Will there be non-HBM versions of the HBM cards? No. Will there be HBM versions of the non-HBM cards? No.

Is HBM interchangeable with HBM2 or GDDR5 as far as the internal structure of GPUs is concerned? NO.

So stop talking about the 480 like it has even a fart in a hangar's chance of being relevant to Pascal.

Someone kill this stupid thread already, please!


I'm curious what makes you a credible source of information over anyone else here?
 
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post #562 of 724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpriest667 View Post

I'm curious what makes you a credible source of information over anyone else here?

Even if you take it all with a grain of salt, he raises a good point.

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1328964

TSMC is expecting wafer delays in Q1 of up to 50 days, depending on the fab. If it hit Nvidia's fab, that would be painful for them. Wafer testing this close to production is a pretty critical time to be punctual, especially with Polaris breathing down your neck.
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post #563 of 724
Quote:
Originally Posted by infranoia View Post


http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1328964

TSMC is expecting wafer delays in Q1 of up to 50 days, depending on the fab. If it hit Nvidia's fab, that would be painful for them. Wafer testing this close to production is a pretty critical time to be punctual, especially with Polaris breathing down your neck.

from your link:.
Quote:
For Fab 14A, wafer delivery will be delayed by 10 to 50 days . . . For Fab 14B, the delivery delay will negligible, the company said.

from here:
http://vrworld.com/2016/02/15/taiwan-earthquake-hit-tsmc-hard/
Quote:
Fab 14/14B is the most advanced fab, with 20nm and 16nm nodes. TSMC 16nm and 20nm customers include Apple, AMD, NVIDIA and Qualcomm.

so either none or 50 day at most delay. but yeah could put a damper on a deadline.
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post #564 of 724
Meh I've always said TSMC is more than capable of screwing up on their own without any external factors.

I know I''m probably saying this for the 4th or 5th time here, but please bear in mind that TSMC is the company that
  • screwed up every single node starting with 40nm (40nm issues led to the 480, 32nm HKMG scrapped caused 6970 to not perform to its fullest potential, 28nm initial yield issues, 20nm epic failed)
  • has no prior FinFET experience
  • has a worse track record than AMD when it comes to delays and not meeting their timelines

So again, thinking that 16nm FF will somehow be all hunky-dory and work out just fine without any issues is just, well, unrealistic to say the least.
post #565 of 724
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFPS View Post

The only people that thought the gtx480 was a disaster, was the people that didn't own them.
I bought gtx 480 for $ on launch day. In fact still have them one of them has a serial number 000069.

The day Installed my gtx 480 I broke world records with it. Look in my sig. They are not hot never went above 81c (furmark). They are loud when the temps go above 76c.
I kept them for 5 years they did a great job. Of course one 980ti has more performance than both of the good ole 480's. They beat the competitors offering by a long shot. 5870

Times move on.

I had a GTX 470 and while it was quick, it also heated my study up tremendously to the point where I upgraded fairly quickly because of that alone..It was under water with load temps of ~55c when OCed but the sheer amount of heat it put into the room was staggering. It was also disappointing compared to my previous HD4890 CFX setup that was about as quick as it was (Managing to match a 480 occasionally) but still managed to warm the area around my PC up far less despite there being two GPUs..Plus the launch was crap, woodscrews, delays, final product only really living up to performance expectations and not power consumption, etc ones. There's a good reason why the HD5k series was so popular, and why somewhat buggy drivers for it (That were actually fine on my HD4890s, go figure) caused a reputation that still hangs around like a bad smell. (For reference, the only one of the commonly reported bugs I got was the Grey Screen of Death which was fixed by lowering my memory OC 10Mhz and only showed in Source games, no other engines or stress tests showed that little bit of instability.)
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post #566 of 724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

I had a GTX 470 and while it was quick, it also heated my study up tremendously to the point where I upgraded fairly quickly because of that alone..It was under water with load temps of ~55c when OCed but the sheer amount of heat it put into the room was staggering. It was also disappointing compared to my previous HD4890 CFX setup that was about as quick as it was (Managing to match a 480 occasionally) but still managed to warm the area around my PC up far less despite there being two GPUs..Plus the launch was crap, woodscrews, delays, final product only really living up to performance expectations and not power consumption, etc ones. There's a good reason why the HD5k series was so popular, and why somewhat buggy drivers for it (That were actually fine on my HD4890s, go figure) caused a reputation that still hangs around like a bad smell. (For reference, the only one of the commonly reported bugs I got was the Grey Screen of Death which was fixed by lowering my memory OC 10Mhz and only showed in Source games, no other engines or stress tests showed that little bit of instability.)

I loved my 470. One of my favorite cards. And as drivers matured, it got faster than the 5870.
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post #567 of 724
My first video card purchase was a pair GTX 560Ti's which could go toe-to-toe with the 470's back in the day, but do it quieter and cooler.
post #568 of 724
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

Meh I've always said TSMC is more than capable of screwing up on their own without any external factors.

I know I''m probably saying this for the 4th or 5th time here, but please bear in mind that TSMC is the company that
  • screwed up every single node starting with 40nm (40nm issues led to the 480, 32nm HKMG scrapped caused 6970 to not perform to its fullest potential, 28nm initial yield issues, 20nm epic failed)
  • has no prior FinFET experience
  • has a worse track record than AMD when it comes to delays and not meeting their timelines

So again, thinking that 16nm FF will somehow be all hunky-dory and work out just fine without any issues is just, well, unrealistic to say the least.

Sure, but this isn't a brand new lithography this time at all. TSMC has made at the absolute bare minimum, 30 million A9s for the Iphone release in September. That means they have been mass producing 16nm FF chips since June at the very latest. I see no reason why given such supreme volumes involved with that endeavor we think it's so unlikely they can make a few ~530mm chips for nVIDIA this spring for a Titan launch.

I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if they screw it up, they do it a lot. But they put out a great chip for Apple in insanely large quantities over 7 months ago on the lithography, it has almost certainly matured a great deal already and should be more than ready for medium/large GPU chips in medium volume. Yields may be sub-par, but it's not like they are going to release a cut down GP100 for $650 anytime soon. They are going into $2000 Teslas and $1000 ($1200?) Titans that don't sell millions of units, or even hundreds of thousands of units.
post #569 of 724
Quote:
Originally Posted by provost View Post

I believe we have a fundamental disagreement over how uninformed pc gamers are generally, and Nvidia’s customers, specifically.

So, how do you respond to AMD's year and a half campaign of lies about FreeSync and G-Sync? How "informed" are their customers, as a result?
post #570 of 724
m
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

So, how do you respond to AMD's year and a half campaign of lies about FreeSync and G-Sync? How "informed" are their customers, as a result?
still better than 224bit 3.5+.5gb. smile.gif cause they actually delivered what they said.
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